Koi and goldfish won't eat

[CometKeith]

Cjss. The only time I have seen fish not eat is when they are sick. Algae in the spring is very typical until a pond has cycled. It's actually very helpful in reducing excess wastes in your pond and eventually it will go away. Honestly it seems like your family has done almost everything wrong. Leave the algae and don't try to get rid of it. Leave the plants since they will convert the nitrites to nitrates, and don't do massive water changes as this will affect the ph, temperature, and many other things. I think if you do as little as possible the pond and fish will recover,

 

[Cjs123]

We have had the pond over 10 years (which my husband and son built) and never had any problems other than algae and a pesky Blue Heron that appeared 3 times over the years. Finally got a manikin.
Never used an algaecide either except for the barley spheres last year that had no affect at all on the super algae. It was so bad that we couldn't even see the fish the entire season. We always scrubbed down the pond and cleaned out all the leaves that blew in from the previous fall. Never lost a fish. BTW, everyone is alive and appears well this morning. Still not interested in eating though.
I always had 5 pots of lilies, hyacinths, 2-3 other type of plants and underwater plants. Plus we collected frog eggs or tadpoles from a forest pond. I tried floating plants but doesn't work with Koi. I wanted to cover about 3/4 of the surface. Husband pitched 3 plants and most of the hyacinths because he thought they harbored last years strain of algae. He soaked the rest in algaecide and put them back. Like it didn't continue to live on the rocks???? Dang expensive mistake. Unfortunately I can't buy anything until mid May around here.
Question, should I continue to remove the food after an hour or so? Husband wants me to throw in algae wafers. Sure would be less likely to cloud the water. They seem to be eating it off the sides somewhat.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Question, should I continue to remove the food after an hour or so? Husband wants me to throw in algae wafers. Sure would be less likely to cloud the water. They seem to be eating it off the sides somewhat.

Remove any food that is not eaten in Five (5) minutes. If the fish are indeed nibbling on the periphyton (algae) growth on the sides of the pond then they are likely OK appetite-wise.This is good algae and an important part of the aquatic food chain. It also produces Oxygen to supplement that which is derived from the atmosphere. This algae should not be removed.
As @Lisak1 mentioned, although you may have 'gotten by' for Ten (10) years without any supplemental biofiltration, your pond may have reached that tipping point that she referred to.
Have you tested your water recently? What is the Ammonia level?
Your well water needs to be tested for other than bacteria. So many pollutants are creeping into well water these days that it is rapidly becoming a national concern. Heavy metals, pharmaceuticals, VOCs etc. all enter into the picture and can have a negative effect on any pond life. It is best to know for sure if the well water is OK.

 

[Cjs123]

Praise Be! They ate some pellets. Not Moby Dick and Jane.....yet, but it's a start. I'll try a little more later on. Used to be they would swim up to the side as soon as I walked out the door. The pond is right off the porch and I'm the only one feeding them. Has to be the double water change.
Oh, hubby estimates the pond to be around 1,000 gallons. I'll try a test strip for ph etc. I know it's hard, like swimming through cement. Can't be measured >300 +

Ok, we have a filter system on the well, and a UV light. Alk is 120-180, pH is 7.5, NO2 is 0, NO3 is 40,
GH180, KH 120. We are zoned agricultural, and a high water table.




side

 

[Faebinder]

The pictures you showed do not look like an ammonia kill, more like a poison from a chemical. Toss the algaecide in the garbage for sure. What's missing from your posts is the ammonia level.

 

[Cjs123]

Don't have a tester for that. If nitrites is 0 and nitrates is 40 how would ammonia levels be high. I used to have salt water aquarium years back. That tester kit may of had that. Don't remember.

 

[Usman]

can b high ammonia at some point that made them sick , i wudnt worry if they are not eating thats not the main issue , its just there reaction to some thing wrong
ur fishes are growing each year so u will need some gravel bio filter and plants on the edges inside water to keep it balanced .
dont feed them if u ask me , when i have any issue , i stop feeding until its balanced bcz feeding will produce more waste if they even digest and if they dont eat it will rot , let them stave little it wont kill them , they shud have some break and recover them self , how many times it happens that some fish is sick dsnt eat and staying alone for few days then it recovers , just provide good aeration , filtration

 

[Cjs123]

Would you have it's own filtration system on the pond in addition to the well like I have on my 125 gal. aquarium? How does that work? Sounds very involved as is that aquarium.
And the pond is more like 13 years old, not 10.

 

[Cjs123]

Ok, GH is > 180, KH is between 40-80, pH 7.5, NO2 0, NO3 20. Still don't have an ammonia strip, but must be low. Everyone is happy and hungry.
There are 3 Koi that are 9 or 10 inches, 2 ~12 in, largest goldfish are ~5-6 in, the remaining 16 are 1 to 3-4 in. That's about max for ~1,000 gal pond, right? Pray tell, what do I do with all those fry that magically appear in Summer?
Now, do I need a filter on the pond as well? We had one my husband made when we first put in the pond. Don't know how good it was or why we took it out. I'm more concerned about keeping the pump clear. It constantly gets clogged with algae and leaves which, of course, stops the falls and shortens the life of the pump if not taken care of right away. (don't get me started) A cage around it would clog up but not as fast, I guess.
Need further input come Fall to see what we're doing wrong, if anything, for Winter freeze, and again for Spring cleaning. Really botched that one. Always scrubbed down and power spayed. Then put fish back into a pristine pond.
I admit I skimp on the amount of underwater plants. They're so expensive. I usually buy 20 bunches, but need, what, 40-50? It's bought the same time I'm buying my hanging baskets etc.
Now I have to replace my lillies.
What is a gravel bio filter?

 

[Faebinder]

Ok, GH is > 180, KH is between 40-80, pH 7.5, NO2 0, NO3 20. Still don't have an ammonia strip, but must be low. Everyone is happy and hungry.
There are 3 Koi that are 9 or 10 inches, 2 ~12 in, largest goldfish are ~5-6 in, the remaining 16 are 1 to 3-4 in. That's about max for ~1,000 gal pond, right? Pray tell, what do I do with all those fry that magically appear in Summer?
Now, do I need a filter on the pond as well? We had one my husband made when we first put in the pond. Don't know how good it was or why we took it out. I'm more concerned about keeping the pump clear. It constantly gets clogged with algae and leaves which, of course, stops the falls and shortens the life of the pump if not taken care of right away. (don't get me started) A cage around it would clog up but not as fast, I guess.
Need further input come Fall to see what we're doing wrong, if anything, for Winter freeze, and again for Spring cleaning. Really botched that one. Always scrubbed down and power spayed. Then put fish back into a pristine pond.
I admit I skimp on the amount of underwater plants. They're so expensive. I usually buy 20 bunches, but need, what, 40-50? It's bought the same time I'm buying my hanging baskets etc.
Now I have to replace my lillies.
What is a gravel bio filter?

You're push the max capacity of the pond fish wise and you definitely need a filter else ammonia will hurt the fish soon.

Use a minnow trap for the small fry and get rid of them.

 

[Usman]

Ok, GH is > 180, KH is between 40-80, pH 7.5, NO2 0, NO3 20. Still don't have an ammonia strip, but must be low. Everyone is happy and hungry.
There are 3 Koi that are 9 or 10 inches, 2 ~12 in, largest goldfish are ~5-6 in, the remaining 16 are 1 to 3-4 in. That's about max for ~1,000 gal pond, right? Pray tell, what do I do with all those fry that magically appear in Summer?
Now, do I need a filter on the pond as well? We had one my husband made when we first put in the pond. Don't know how good it was or why we took it out. I'm more concerned about keeping the pump clear. It constantly gets clogged with algae and leaves which, of course, stops the falls and shortens the life of the pump if not taken care of right away. (don't get me started) A cage around it would clog up but not as fast, I guess.
Need further input come Fall to see what we're doing wrong, if anything, for Winter freeze, and again for Spring cleaning. Really botched that one. Always scrubbed down and power spayed. Then put fish back into a pristine pond.
I admit I skimp on the amount of underwater plants. They're so expensive. I usually buy 20 bunches, but need, what, 40-50? It's bought the same time I'm buying my hanging baskets etc.
Now I have to replace my lillies.
What is a gravel bio filter?

do you have any portion of pond where u can add small sized pea gravel a shallow pocket , then u will need to run water over it thru ur pump . it can b before ur waterfall a bucket or barrel or small linner , or either it can b inside pond where water fall flows , just need to have shallow 1 foot gravel , it depends on u how u can find awway to do so , it doesnot need any cleaning , it will be more a biological filter but will also do job of mechanical . bio filter is necessary , mechanical filer is not a must , ur fish can b happy in mudy water but the chemical composition shud b balanced by bio media ie gravel in ur case . later on u can plant some water shrubs plants in that bog , it shud not b deep . , basic principle is that all the water ur pumping shud run over it or under it .

 

[Lisak1]

I think by gravel bio filter you might mean what some of us refer to as a "bog filter". Simply stated it's a vessel or pit filled with a combination of rock and gravel with water plumbed into the bottom which is forced upward through the gravel where it then flows into your pond via waterfall or stream. Plants are planted in the gravel which remove nutrients from the water - hence providing biological filtration. Bog filters come in all shapes and sizes. That is a very simplistic explanation. Search for "bog" on the forum to see lots of examples and far better explanations than I have given you here!

As for your fish load, honestly your koi are a much bigger concern than your goldfish. Ounce for ounce they produce a lot more waste and put a bigger strain on your system than do goldfish, so if you're going to do anything I would suggest re-homing the koi. I know - it's hard to think of giving up our pets, but in the long run they may not do well in your pond. I don't know how long your koi have been in your pond, but at their current size they could more than double in length before they reach their maximum size. Things will continue to go downhill in your pond as they get larger. You will see many different opinions about maximum fish load for a pond, but in my opinion your FIRST koi needs 1000 gallons and then you do your calculating from there - whether it's inch or pound or whatever per gallon. The best functioning ponds stay under-load. You'll never hear anyone say "oh my gosh! I have too much water in my pond!"

The goldfish will continue to reproduce, but if you stop feeding your fish when you see the signs of spawning, they will eat most of the eggs and keep the population down.

As for any mistakes you may have made this year - don't beat yourself up. Just move forward. We all learn as we go!

 

[Usman]

i found this video u can get idea from here how he made it simple , if ur hubby dont like plants all over pond , u can just restrict them to small portion ie bog and fill it with gravel , run water thru it , ur done , in a month or 2 it will b processing ur harmful chemicals gasses and throw them out of system , atm ur pond is becoming saturated with harmful chemicals theres no way to go for it . tell him brifely how it will help ur fish , the gravel will work as home for bacteria that will process harmful chemicals which are produced by fish gills and waste , then plants will consume some of it and remove it from water . these chemicals are invisible , nitrites nitrates ammonia etc , ur pond may look clear and fish will look fine but may b they are not happy and having hard time breathing . its like when we have a pet dog cat , we keep its place clean and its food clean , its bowl clean , if we dont clean it , it will get sick , it may live but in difficulty unhappy
next u can go to ur plant nursery and ask them for bog plants .
start with 2 to 4 sacks of pea gravel , more is beter , rinse it well before adding .
Pond bog filter - YouTube

 

[Lisak1]

Functional, if not terribly attractive!

 

[Cjs123]

All Koi are going to my daughters place. They have a VERY large natural pond that's spring fed with spring house etc. Trick is to transport them and acclimate them without killing them. My pond is about 60 degrees right now. That spring water is much colder, not to mention the Ph and hardness shocker. My aquarium fish get ick with any temp change over 2 degrees. Are Koi as prone to it as tropical fish? I would think not because the well temp and the pond temp in Summer is at least 10 degrees different and it never bothered them. Actually they like swimming in the flow of the hose.