? magnifying glass for underwater

[crazyforponds]

Hi all. i am working on a small 200 gallon irregularly shaped pond that I am putting level with my flag stone. We have glued the liner to the flag stones. The problem is that we have a persistent leak that I cannot find. I have covered every inch of the liner and we have sealed and resealed everything we can think of. The water does not drop untill we fill up the pond and it consistently drops about about 2 inches. We are not bringing the water level up to the area that we sealed onto the flag stone so it cannot be that it is leaking there. The only thing I can think is that the hole closer when we empty the pond and opens with the pressure of the water when the pond is full. The only thing I can think of is to look at the liner when the pond is full. Does any one know anything I can use to do that.? I tried putting milk in several times but could not see any funnels. Thanks

 

[Lisaebetten]

When the pond is full of water is there a fold that the water could be siphoning the water up and out of the pond thru the fold? Others have said to let it leak out to the point that it stops, there will be the level of the hole. I'm looking forward to other replies as I loose 1/2 a week and wonder if it's just evap or a leak. I can't even fathom finding the leak as I have foamed rocked walls.

 

[crazyforponds]

There are a lot of folds in the pond bc it is so irregular (used to be a planter). We have worked really hard to seal the folds. There would have to be a hole somewhere in the folds bc we r not filling the pond up to the top of the liner. I have another very large pond that we suspect has a leak but it is all rocked in and would be maddening to try and find it. We just top off the pond when the water level gets too low and then declorinize the added water. Its easier than looking for the leak. I think yours is probably evaporation but i am not an expert by any means.

 

[Lisaebetten]

There are a lot of folds in the pond bc it is so irregular (used to be a planter). We have worked really hard to seal the folds. There would have to be a hole somewhere in the folds bc we r not filling the pond up to the top of the liner. I have another very large pond that we suspect has a leak but it is all rocked in and would be maddening to try and find it. We just top off the pond when the water level gets too low and then declorinize the added water. Its easier than looking for the leak. I think yours is probably evaporation but i am not an expert by any means.

Oh thanks for that info, how much do you think you loose in a week in the big pond with the known leak? I noticed the splash from my falls and stopped that temporarily with a mesh bag of filber fill. I also sealed the top edge and every nook and cranny around the falls box liner hook up. I noticed it was seeping under the lip of the falls and down the back side of the liner. My falls will not be finished until next year, I just finished the pond and got it cycled and I am tired of being tired! Good luck, I am taking the same approach and just filling it every so often if the rain doesn't do it for me!

 

[Mmathis]

I was going to suggest pulling the liner back and looking for a wet area, but if you've already glued liner to the flagstone, guess you can't pull it back. What do you mean when you say that you sealed the folds?

Can you post a current picture of your pond?

 

[Lisaebetten]

I was going to suggest pulling the liner back and looking for a wet area, but if you've already glued liner to the flagstone, guess you can't pull it back. What do you mean when you say that you sealed the folds?

Can you post a current picture of your pond?

Ahhh, excellent idea to pull the liner back! I bet he could, just have to pick up the rock with it. Thats why I love this place!

 

[crazyforponds]

I was going to suggest pulling the liner back and looking for a wet area, but if you've already glued liner to the flagstone, guess you can't pull it back. What do you mean when you say that you sealed the folds?

Can you post a current picture of your pond?

We actually unsealed the area next to the retaining wall. There was water under the liner and we used a shop vac to suck all that out. Then I filled in about a foot of water and dyed the water green to see if it leaked under the liner. It did not. Then I filled up the pond half way and still no leak. i filled up 3/4 and the level of water remained the same. However when I filled it all the way (about 2 inched below the top of the liner) it dropped 2 inches. Because the pond shape is irregular we had a lot of fold to adapt it to the area. Plus when my son glued the edge to the flagstones he used the factory edge. This meant that all the excess ended up on the opposite side (near the retaining wall). When we had a persistant leak we took a big fold and used roof sealant to adhere the two edges of the liner together so hopfully it would become like one piece of liner. We were then able to fold that over and adhere it to an unfolded area of the liner. It sounds confusing. I will try to upload a picture.

 

[Lisaebetten]

Do you have plants or fish in the pond? The first thing that comes to my mind is that I use dawn dish soap to find leaks in blow up tubes and rafts. I'm sure it will cause problems to your pond life but if its not set up, maybe? I know they use it to clean off oily wild life. Follow the air?

 

[Mmathis]

We actually unsealed the area next to the retaining wall. There was water under the liner and we used a shop vac to suck all that out. Then I filled in about a foot of water and dyed the water green to see if it leaked under the liner. It did not. Then I filled up the pond half way and still no leak. i filled up 3/4 and the level of water remained the same. However when I filled it all the way (about 2 inched below the top of the liner) it dropped 2 inches. Because the pond shape is irregular we had a lot of fold to adapt it to the area. Plus when my son glued the edge to the flagstones he used the factory edge. This meant that all the excess ended up on the opposite side (near the retaining wall). When we had a persistant leak we took a big fold and used roof sealant to adhere the two edges of the liner together so hopfully it would become like one piece of liner. We were then able to fold that over and adhere it to an unfolded area of the liner. It sounds confusing. I will try to upload a picture.

Hmmmmm...... I know that when I sew and have an area where there's a lot of fabric -- like having excess pond liner -- if I'm not careful with my folds, pleats, gathers [whatever], I'll have a fold where the back side of the fold is shorter, but it's covered by the top part of the fold. I won't notice it until I get it sewn and flip it over, when I'll notice that some of the material didn't get "caught up" in the stitching. That probably didn't make any sense, but IOW, maybe there was a fold where all of the liner didn't end up the same lenght, but you can't tell it 'cause of the over-lap. Just a thought. Yes, pictures might help.

 

[Dave 54]

Are you using an external filter on the pond that could remove some water from the pond then there's daily evaporation

Dave

 

[crazyforponds]

Hmmmmm...... I know that when I sew and have an area where there's a lot of fabric -- like having excess pond liner -- if I'm not careful with my folds, pleats, gathers [whatever], I'll have a fold where the back side of the fold is shorter, but it's covered by the top part of the fold. I won't notice it until I get it sewn and flip it over, when I'll notice that some of the material didn't get "caught up" in the stitching. That probably didn't make any sense, but IOW, maybe there was a fold where all of the liner didn't end up the same lenght, but you can't tell it 'cause of the over-lap. Just a thought. Yes, pictures might help.

Yes we thought of this. That's the reason we tried to put all the excess into one fold and seal it side to side. Thinking we may have to buy a new liner and start from scratch. I looked at liquid EPDM yesterday but to coat the area of the liner above where the water has dropped to might be as expensive as a new liner and there is no guarantee we would find the problem.

 

[crazyforponds]

Are you using an external filter on the pond that could remove some water from the pond then there's daily evaporation

Dave

No we haven't got that far yet because we don't want to finish off the pond interior knowing we have a leak.

 

[Lisaebetten]

This mystery keeps me thinking! Can't wait to hear the out come. If you are going to buy a new liner could you make your container easier? Maybe a preform type?