My Koi Addiction....

[Gemma]

Hello @CometKeith AKA koi addict

After reading your post I guess I shouldn't complain about my addiction, I'm satisfied just talking about koi and looking at videos/pics, don't need to keep buying. I would if I wasn't afraid of over stocking....I wanna be strong about this, like @Tula I think I still have room for a few but I'm saving that in case I happen to have an accidental fry I can't part with. ...or I see one for sale I just have to have...oh man! I suck at this!

Vietnam huh, wow! You really like to travel! Me, not so much, but I'm planning on being very brave some day,when the kids have moved out, and make it to the Aquascape pond tour in Chicago!

Question for you: What do I look for, to be able to tell apart a Doitsu Kujaku from a Kin Kikokuryu?

 

[j.w]

Boy you do get around don't ya @CometKeith

 

[CometKeith]

Hello @CometKeith AKA koi addict View attachment 118441

After reading your post I guess I shouldn't complain about my addiction, I'm satisfied just talking about koi and looking at videos/pics, don't need to keep buying. I would if I wasn't afraid of over stocking....I wanna be strong about this, like @Tula I think I still have room for a few but I'm saving that in case I happen to have an accidental fry I can't part with. ...or I see one for sale I just have to have...oh man! I suck at this!View attachment 118442

Vietnam huh, wow! You really like to travel! Me, not so much, but I'm planning on being very brave some day,when the kids have moved out, and make it to the Aquascape pond tour in Chicago!

Question for you: What do I look for, to be able to tell apart a Doitsu Kujaku from a Kin Kikokuryu?

Hi Gemma. I have been mostly learning about Showa and Sanke. There is so much to know about them it's crazy. Also of course Kohaku are very nice too as they round out the big three. So obviously anything Doitsu are scaleless. I have been interested in Doitsu Sanke as they are some of the most beautiful Sanke and have unique colors. Kujaku have a blue undertone. On a sad note when I lost my Kujaku last winter part of it was disintegrated. It had the brightest blue layer of skin under the outer skin I ever saw. I couldn't believe it was a natural color. Kikokuryu are known for their color change and are really Doitsu Kumonryu. Whatever you get it doesn't necessarily stay that way and the blue isn't permanent like the Kujaku even though it may look that way at first.. So i guess a Kujaku and Kikokuryu could look similar at first but the odds is the Kikokuryu will change over time. Does that help? This is a good article on it. https://hanoverkoifarms.com/about-koi/guide-koi-breeds-kikokuryu/ A pretty good resource for info about fish is the midwest pond and koi society web page.https://mpks.org/category/deeparticles/ I don't if I agree with every single thing written but overall i think it's very good . Another really cool Doitsu is the Shusui. Have you seen them? They are getting really popular now. It is basically a scaleless Asagi and comes insome really bright colors. Here is a picture of one.

How are your new fish doing? Hope they are all well. I'm sure you don't have any recent pictures with the weather but if you do please share them. It sounds like you still have the bug so maybe it's time to plan for another expansion!!!

 

[CometKeith]

Boy you do get around don't ya @CometKeith

JW. Yes I guess whether I want to or not! My wife has a huge bucket list of places she wants to go to and either I stay home and watch my fish or I go with her. We are planning to do a 17 day trip to Vietnam and Cambodia and will be going to most of the major cities in both countries and also will be seeing a lot of historical and cultural sites. It's particularly interesting for me because when I was a teenager this was the last place in the world I wanted to go! Fortunately the draft ended the year I turned 18 and I didn't have to go there. I still remember my draft number from back then as it was pretty low. I'm looking forward to the trip and hoping my "business" will still be around when I get back!

 

[Gemma]

Hi Gemma. I have been mostly learning about Showa and Sanke. There is so much to know about them it's crazy. Also of course Kohaku are very nice too as they round out the big three. So obviously anything Doitsu are scaleless. I have been interested in Doitsu Sanke as they are some of the most beautiful Sanke and have unique colors. Kujaku have a blue undertone. On a sad note when I lost my Kujaku last winter part of it was disintegrated. It had the brightest blue layer of skin under the outer skin I ever saw. I couldn't believe it was a natural color. Kikokuryu are known for their color change and are really Doitsu Kumonryu. Whatever you get it doesn't necessarily stay that way and the blue isn't permanent like the Kujaku even though it may look that way at first.. So i guess a Kujaku and Kikokuryu could look similar at first but the odds is the Kikokuryu will change over time. Does that help? This is a good article on it. https://hanoverkoifarms.com/about-koi/guide-koi-breeds-kikokuryu/ A pretty good resource for info about fish is the midwest pond and koi society web page.https://mpks.org/category/deeparticles/ I don't if I agree with every single thing written but overall i think it's very good . Another really cool Doitsu is the Shusui. Have you seen them? They are getting really popular now. It is basically a scaleless Asagi and comes insome really bright colors. Here is a picture of one.
View attachment 118457
How are your new fish doing? Hope they are all well. I'm sure you don't have any recent pictures with the weather but if you do please share them. It sounds like you still have the bug so maybe it's time to plan for another expansion!!!

Hi @CometKeith , thanks for all that info!
Out of the big 3 ( lol not GM, Ford and Chrysler) I would really love a Showa!...but I'm pretty sure once in my pond, it would lose all the red and look more like a Shiro Utsuri...which it wouldn't be as bad as my once Sunke turning into a Shiro Bekko, if I knew for sure that at least the Sumi would keep a nice pattern. Too many "if" for me to take a chance.
@audioenvy brought up an interesting point a while back, saying it's not my pond, it's the genetics of the fish, and that might very possibly be true, but I cannot make myself spend more than 300$ on a fish, first I'll wait and see what yours do.
I do have a 2yr old (will be 3 this year) Shusui, but it looks nothing like the Japanese kind, it's all red with a dark zipper along it's back and a fainted blue on its face, no white.
About my new fish: The little kujaku unfortunately didn't make it, perhaps it was just too small! I stopped buying fish smaller than 10" because they never did well in my pond, either dying or becoming snake/frog food, but last Fall I took a chance because the price was too good to pass.
The other new fish seem to be doing good. I've been keeping a close eye on them, feeling a bit guilty for putting them in the pond that late in the season (I really thought I had more time before the cold), but they seemed fine, they're very alert, I can see them eating the growth on the liner and swimming slowly at the bottom, always very close to one another.
This was the first time that I bought fish and not fed them right away. I just put them in the water and left them, they have no idea how much they're loved! I can't wait till it's warm enough to feed them.

 

[CometKeith]

Hi @CometKeith , thanks for all that info!
Out of the big 3 ( lol not GM, Ford and Chrysler) I would really love a Showa!...but I'm pretty sure once in my pond, it would lose all the red and look more like a Shiro Utsuri...which it wouldn't be as bad as my once Sunke turning into a Shiro Bekko, if I knew for sure that at least the Sumi would keep a nice pattern. Too many "if" for me to take a chance.
@audioenvy brought up an interesting point a while back, saying it's not my pond, it's the genetics of the fish, and that might very possibly be true, but I cannot make myself spend more than 300$ on a fish, first I'll wait and see what yours do.
I do have a 2yr old (will be 3 this year) Shusui, but it looks nothing like the Japanese kind, it's all red with a dark zipper along it's back and a fainted blue on its face, no white.
About my new fish: The little kujaku unfortunately didn't make it, perhaps it was just too small! I stopped buying fish smaller than 10" because they never did well in my pond, either dying or becoming snake/frog food, but last Fall I took a chance because the price was too good to pass.
The other new fish seem to be doing good. I've been keeping a close eye on them, feeling a bit guilty for putting them in the pond that late in the season (I really thought I had more time before the cold), but they seemed fine, they're very alert, I can see them eating the growth on the liner and swimming slowly at the bottom, always very close to one another.
This was the first time that I bought fish and not fed them right away. I just put them in the water and left them, they have no idea how much they're loved! I can't wait till it's warm enough to feed them.

I'm sorry about your Kujaku. I think it's rough for the fish when there is a big drop in temps and they are not used to it. So without being snobby about Japanese Koi being better I think there are a lot of good reasons to buy them if you don't mind spending the extra money.
A. Typically the parents with the best bloodlines are used so the best genetics are typically sought after in Japan. Also not every show quality Koi produces the best fry so you have to know which pair of fish will produce the best babies. Each hatchery in Japan is known for raising one or two particular types of Koi so there is a lot of specialization. Also their knowledge goes from generation to generation so there is a huge experience factor.
B. Culling- I think from 1000000 yes 1 million fry! less than 1000 fish make it to their selling tanks. That's a huge cull ratio. Also they are expert at knowing which fish to keep and cull. Only the strongest and best examples of the type of Koi are kept.
C. Husbandry. The are know for growth rates in their mud ponds that are phenomenal. The best food and growing conditions are provided to bring out all the potential each fish has. Also as I mentioned above they do let their fish go through the seasons and go through very cold months so these are not babied. It has been shown that Japanese Koi live the longest.
So someone could say I'm not into all the prestige of having imported Koi ......... and all that but really there are very good reasons the Japanese Koi are the best. I'm far from an expert, but so far I have been happy with my two Japanese Koi and they are doing well. I definitely think it's worth the extra investment to get the best fish you can considering they will hopefully be your pets for a long time.

 

[Gemma]

. It sounds like you still have the bug so maybe it's time to plan for another expansion!!!

It's hard to fight the bug when my husband keeps encouraging me to search for new koi (he's bad lol he even gave me coupons for Christmas).. but there is no way to expand either one of my ponds and I really don't want to dig a third one. I have 2 shubunkins and 18 koi in 9,200gls of water, I don't think I have room for more, he thinks I could add at least 5...what do you think?

 

[Tula]

If I had the room, I'd add an Ochiba .....I believe the name means "falling leaves" in Japanese. I'm attaching a picture I found on the internet.

That said, I don't have the room if I want my 4 koi to remain happy We're to get a real cold snap this week end, so I need to plug in my Pond Breather. My pond is completely covered with a pool solar cover and a small aerator running, but I put the PB in the pond, leaving it unplugged, in case of very cold weather.

 

[Gemma]

If I had the room, I'd add an Ochiba .....I believe the name means "falling leaves" in Japanese. I'm attaching a picture I found on the internet.

That said, I don't have the room if I want my 4 koi to remain happy We're to get a real cold snap this week end, so I need to plug in my Pond Breather. My pond is completely covered with a pool solar cover and a small aerator running, but I put the PB in the pond, leaving it unplugged, in case of very cold weather.View attachment 118459

You are the reason I had to have one!
That is a beautiful Ochiba! Mine is a Ginrin, with a lot of silver and dark chocolate markings
I'm curious to see what my little Ochiba will be like, as far as personality. Usually when I got fish through the mail I've always wondered if they were still alive until I opened the box, but not this little guy, it was hitting the sides of the box with full force... I had to laugh when I opened the box and saw just how small it was instead. I had never seen a 6" koi that chubby, I wonder if it's a girl.

@Tula, I read that Ochiba darken with age, do you happen to know if the patterns also changes, or do they keep the same exact pattern?

 

[CometKeith]

It's hard to fight the bug when my husband keeps encouraging me to search for new koi (he's bad lol he even gave me coupons for Christmas).. but there is no way to expand either one of my ponds and I really don't want to dig a third one. I have 2 shubunkins and 18 koi in 9,200gls of water, I don't think I have room for more, he thinks I could add at least 5...what do you think?

Hi Gemma. So the big questions is what kind of filtration do you have? I know the boring but.... very important stuff! That will give an indicator of what your pond can hold. I'm looking into getting a bead filter with an external pump this spring. Something like this for the filter. https://webbsonline.com/Item/Ultima-II-Bio-Tube-Filter-11190
I'm guessing you should probably have something a lot better for you pond size and bio-load. from what I understand the most preferable ones are like this or larger if you have room. https://www.azponds.com/product/kodama-bio-clean-pond-filter-5000-gallons/

 

[Gemma]

Hi Gemma. So the big questions is what kind of filtration do you have? I know the boring but.... very important stuff! That will give an indicator of what your pond can hold. I'm looking into getting a bead filter with an external pump this spring. Something like this for the filter. https://webbsonline.com/Item/Ultima-II-Bio-Tube-Filter-11190
I'm guessing you should probably have something a lot better for you pond size and bio-load. from what I understand the most preferable ones are like this or larger if you have room. https://www.azponds.com/product/kodama-bio-clean-pond-filter-5000-gallons/

Hi ,
I'm not an expert in filtration, but I take really good care of my mechanical filter.
I have the simple skimmer and bio-fall, they are decent size in both ponds. rated for larger volume of water. The fall tubs are filled with Matala pads. I have Matala pads in the skimmer boxes as well, plus some extra pads to polish the water further. I rinse all my mechanical filter pads daily during the active season.
I might decide to add a shower filter like this one

on the new pond (no room in the other pond) it is the nicest looking one I've seen so far.

 

[CometKeith]

Hi ,
I'm not an expert in filtration, but I take really good care of my mechanical filter.
I have the simple skimmer and bio-fall, they are decent size in both ponds. rated for larger volume of water. The fall tubs are filled with Matala pads. I have Matala pads in the skimmer boxes as well, plus some extra pads to polish the water further. I rinse all my mechanical filter pads daily during the active season.
I might decide to add a shower filter like this one

on the new pond (no room in the other pond) it is the nicest looking one I've seen so far.

It sounds like you have good filtration going on. Is a shower filter also called a trickle down tower? With almost a 10000 gallon pond you probably can have a lot more Koi if your filtration is good. Over the summer I saw a 11000 gallon pond with 30 or 40 Koi in it. It really depends how good your filters are and of course the water movement. Also since you are cleaning your mechanical filters every day you are really on top of things. I would say go for it if you want to add a few more. Over time if you see your filters can't keep up then you will need to add more filtration.

 

[Gemma]

Is a shower filter also called a trickle down tower?

I think so, and it says so in most videos! ...but it could be yet another debatable thing in the koi keeping world
Thank you!