New Pond'r from New Jersey

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by PonderingPonds, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. PonderingPonds

    sissy sissy

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    So you are making it waterproof ,is that ice and water shield or just tar paper as ice and water shield is a lot better for that .I can't tell ..I could tell your soil is not a 100% percent sand .I have friends who live in Little Egg Harbor and they have mostly sand nd it is finer and really smells bad when they get a lot of rain.Turns somewhat black also when it's wet .yuk
     
    sissy, Dec 25, 2011
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  2. PonderingPonds

    PonderingPonds

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    Its just tar paper, I'm not familiar with ice & water shield, I'm guessing its heavier material. Hopefully ice wont be an issue, where the tar paper is covered by the decking it should last a while. I think the cover will also offer a fair amount of insulation in itself, between the decking, tar paper and thin plywood under the tar paper, it should help keep some of the cold out of the filter pit. I was noticing even when there was no cover, just the fact it was below the frost line, kept the little bit of water in the bottom of the skimer tank from freezing while the pond surface had ice on it.
     
    PonderingPonds, Dec 26, 2011
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  3. PonderingPonds

    sissy sissy

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    ice and water shield has a really sticky side and when you puncture the membrane with a nail or screw it seals around it so it does not leak and some of the membrane now comes with a gritty texture to keep roofers from slipping off the roof .They use it around skylights also .I had my whole roof done with it under the shingles as it holds down tight to the roof because of the sticky side and in high winds like I get up on the hill where I live ,if a shingle blows off there is still protection .It is also used on the edge of a roof so you do not get ice dam back up and protects your roof .About 50 dollars for a smaller roll at home depot or lowes .
     
    sissy, Dec 26, 2011
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  4. PonderingPonds

    Waterbug

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    Yes, I can see the footer. I wouldn't worry about water coming in, can't get much drier than no soil.

    I don't know the code in your area but in general building code requires a footer be a certain depth. The depth they pick is below the expected freeze depth because when ground freezes under the footer it lifts the house a small amount and over time destroy the foundation. The initial cracks are invisible, you could go years and not see damage. But at some point larger cracks will appear. At that point that part of the foundation has to be replaced. That's in the $5000 to $20000 range.

    The frost line in most of NJ is 36" to 42". I'd guess your footer is maybe 1" deep now. Just FYI. You'll probably be OK, these things take a few years. The next owners will probably be the ones to have to deal with the problems.
     
    Waterbug, Dec 27, 2011
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  5. PonderingPonds

    sissy sissy

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    If his basement is mostly above ground his footer should still be deep enough under the ground as my house was like that also back in NJ and the basement on the side where the dirt was higher was only done to backfill for the septic tank .But the footer was still 48 inches deep on that side .It is just that parts of the basement were above ground to have bigger windows and an access door .But he could make sure it does not freeze by adding waterproof foam core to the basement wall and under the tanks .I lived in central NJ .
     
    sissy, Dec 27, 2011
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  6. PonderingPonds

    PonderingPonds

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    I don't think the exposed basement wall will be an issue, the frost line for my area is 30". I don't know exactly how far down the footer extends, the floor of the filter pit is just at the top of it. I am going to monitor the small amount of water in the bottom of the skimmer tank this winter to see if it ever freezes, I think the surrounding ground temperatures may actually keep the temp above freezing in the filter pit and below it. If the water in the bottom of the filter pit never freezes its unlikely any water that may get beneath it and perhaps the footer would freeze either. I could also add some rigid foam insulation to the bottom of the filter pit cover to help keep the filter pit temperature up.
     
    PonderingPonds, Dec 27, 2011
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  7. PonderingPonds

    Waterbug

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    A footer is 6" to 8" deep. I see about that exposed.

    Freeze heaving doesn't require standing water. Dampness in the soil is enough. You think you can stop freezing? If you say so. You might ask a building inspector take a look, they'll come out for free. Of course we both know how that meeting is going to end. I often hear people complain about building codes, well this is a good example of why building codes are needed. If everyone was willing to build correctly we wouldn't need codes. I'd bet if your roof fell in and you found out the previous owner cut through some of the rafters because "he knew they would still hold", you'd be pretty mad.

    That's all I have to say. I know I'm peeing in the wind.
     
    Waterbug, Dec 27, 2011
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  8. PonderingPonds

    Mucky_Waters

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    Waterbug is correct in that most house footings (footers) are typically only 6” to 8” deep, sometimes less. So if you can see the top of your footing the ground beneath the footing is only another few inches below that. The “footing” is what you are seeing at the ground level in the pit, the “foundation wall” is what extends up to level of the deck floor. They are two different things.
    Covering the footing with lots of foam insulation would help, so would insulating under your decking, but the way you’ve built it would make insulating there pretty difficult now. Another factor involved is how warm you keep that part of the basement in your house and how much insulation you have behind that part of the wall.
    If the frost depth level in your area is actually 30” that exposed footing is definitely something to be concerned about.
     
    Mucky_Waters, Dec 27, 2011
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  9. PonderingPonds

    Mucky_Waters

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    Mucky_Waters, Dec 27, 2011
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  10. PonderingPonds

    sissy sissy

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    I have never seen a footer that shallow in NJ as mine was deep and I know that because they had to inspect it before I dug down to build the 2 and half car garage I had built onto the side of my house there .The garage when it was built had to be built to the inspectors satisfaction and codes or no build and the house when the garage was built was only 10 years old .Even when this house in VA was built I was the sub contractor for the basement build and my footers were 36 inches deep as I was going to insulate the slab of the basement and insulate and waterproof the walls .It is easy to find how deep your footers are and if you are safe .Funny because even here the code is 24 but I did mine code plus .I always build code plus because it is easier on passing inspections .He may need to check being it is sandy soil but most of the basement is above ground .Checking to make sure will never do any harm .Hopefully the pit never floods .I guess it being said better safe than sorry .
     
    sissy, Dec 27, 2011
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  11. PonderingPonds

    PonderingPonds

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    Thanks for the info MuckyWaters, I will add some ridgid foam insulation to the bottom of the cover, I have one of those remote temperature sensors, I think I will place it in the bottom of the filter pit so I can better monitor the temperature and compare it to the actual air temp over the course of the winter.
     
    PonderingPonds, Dec 27, 2011
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  12. PonderingPonds

    PonderingPonds

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    Sissy, curiosity may get the best of me and I will probably check on the footer depth once the weather turns warm again. The soil is pretty sandy here and hence has unbelievable water drainage capability, I don't think the soil can hold enough water for frost heaving to be an issue here, but like you said, better safe then sorry.
     
    PonderingPonds, Dec 27, 2011
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  13. PonderingPonds

    Mucky_Waters

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    Sissy you are getting the depth of the footing (below frost level) confused with the depth of the footing itself (thickness). PP has already dug out around his foundation and found out the depth (below frost level) of his footing. The footing is at the bottom of his filter pit. All that remains is the depth (thickness) of the footing itself, which as Waterbug pointed out are normally only 6-8”. Look at the pictures on the link I sent. Essentially he no longer has any frost protection for that footing along that wall.
    No residential footings are 30” thick.
     
    Mucky_Waters, Dec 27, 2011
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  14. PonderingPonds

    sissy sissy

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    If you go to your building department they can also look up the build of your home at a small cost .Most towns there like Edison have them on file and it should tell you the depth of the footers and even the inspectors name some of the times is listed .I still have mine from NJ and there was also a perk test done on my property there and that was done because there was a septic tank .The perk test just shows how fast water drains in a hole they dig in the ground .Simple test you can do your self .Dig a hole fill it with water and see how long it takes to seep into the ground .They do it by there code but it will at least give you an idea .They use a stop watch with a certain amount of water .It seeps in the amount of time they have set ,then it passes .Everything should be in the building specks for your house .Actually great to have the info they give you on your home and I even left copies for the new owners .
     
    sissy, Dec 27, 2011
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  15. PonderingPonds

    sissy sissy

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    Thing is that is different from a house who's basement is above ground as mine was on 3 sides .If you build a deck footers must be a certain depth and even here in VA footers for decks are 24 inches and mine are 36 .My house is on a hill and most of the basement on 3 sides is below ground level ,but the basement in the front is exposed and the land slopes down the whole front of my house .My basement double doors and bigger windows are all in the front of the house and exposed with all the dirt against the back of the house I even back filled the front on one side and had to wait for the ground to stabilize to build the covered front porch ..5 of the 6x6's for it even had to be ordered because of length.And basement slab has 8 inches of foam to insulate it and already plumbed .
     
    sissy, Dec 27, 2011
    #75
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