Our gold fish are ailing

[Deb Taylor]

So sorry to hear about your fish.
What you have described are typical symptoms of Copper toxicity.
All that you can do at this time is to rip out the Iongen and toss it and do a 50% water change immediately followed by another 50% in a couple of days.The Carbon will not make much of a difference if your pond is relatively clean. What MitchM says is true, however the organics present in your pond are likely staurated with Copper at this point and will absorb no more leaving Copper in suspension to be absorbed by the fish. The remaining fish may or may not recover. If they do, it will likely be a slow recovery.
I wish that you had read my article before you purchased the Iongen. Sadly, manufacturers are still selling this dangerous device knowing full well the dangers. At least my article forced them to change their advertising from "Safe for Fish" to "Can be used with Fish" which still implies that the device is safe, but gets them off the hook as regards product liability.
I urge every member of this Forum to read this article. What has happened to Deb and countless others could have been avoided if people were given the true facts.

.....

Our fish our doing better in the holding tank for now. Is there a reason to do a 2 stage water change versus a full drain and refill?

 

[MitchM]

With the fish removed, no.
-unless Meyer has more information regarding copper possibly being retained in the biofilm on the pond walls.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

.....

Our fish our doing better in the holding tank for now. Is there a reason to do a 2 stage water change versus a full drain and refill?

You had indicated that you were not equipped to do a Water Change, so I assumed that a complete clean-out would pose more of a problem. A complete clean-out would of course provide more complete corrective results as it would remove most superfluous organic matter.
The Copper retained by the pond's biofilm will have a minimal impact on the future health of the pond and its inhabitants. any attempt to remove it will have greater negative effects on the overall balance of the pond than the low levels of Copper that it will eventually release.

 

[Deb Taylor]

With the fish removed, no.
-unless Meyer has more information regarding copper possibly being retained in the biofilm on the pond walls.

 

[Deb Taylor]

We did not have the necessary gear to drain the pond. The installers took care of all of this before. We now have the drain hose for the pump and will try to do this ourselves for the first time. Wish us luck!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Are you going to seek reparation for loss of your fish?

 

[Deb Taylor]

not quite worth it at 29 cents each. and, we still have 6 of the for the time being. We started with 6 expensive shebunkens (sp?) that our local herons enjoyed.
Switched to the petsmart special until we figure this all out.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

not quite worth it at 29 cents each. and, we still have 6 of the for the time being. We started with 6 expensive shebunkens (sp?) that our local herons enjoyed.
Switched to the petsmart special until we figure this all out.

What about your time and stress? May not be worth it financially, but it will place the responsibility for this where it belongs......with the contractor for not fully explaining the Ionizer operation to you. How many others has this contractor affected? It will at least encourage him/her to be a little more conscientious.

 

[Deb Taylor]

I'll try a gentler approach first. I need these guys for seasonal maintenance. They are just about the only people who came to help us out.
The actual installers told us level 1 would be just fine. The helper lady over the phone is the one who told us to set it higher to deal with the algae.
----
We will see how the day goes for us.

 

[Dave 54]

Deb what Meyer is saying that until you stand up to these manufactureres then accidents like this are going to happen time and again until someone makes a stand on the issue and takes the dealership to court to hit them where it hurts hardest their bank accounts .
Personally I look at ideas such as this, weigh up the pros and cons read about it from other either satisfied or dis satisfied customers and sources like Meyer.
It is only then if all the issues involved work that we will hink about trying it .
Personally Deb for a pond your size I think you were over sold by either the shop dealership or by the people who sell the Ionizer and there you have just cause "overkill".
"A very well put together Article Meyer and I tend to agree with you that Ionizing a pond can lead to copper toxidity, when offered an Ionizer to trial by our local dealership when we moved outdoors I'm now really glad that we didnt take him up on his offer.
I have the text book of fish health (George Post) in our book collection what page are you refaring too when you give your levels of toxidity out ?
I've a feeling the person was over sold equipment for her pond at 550 Usgallons its on the small side you have to admit ".

Dave

 

[Deb Taylor]

Let's start at the beginning. Two years ago we bought a house with a 15 year-old water feature: water lilies, a circulating water pump and falls with no filtration, liner with no rock bottom. We were told to use 1/2 cup of Microbelift and 1/2 cup Green Clean once week. That's all you need to do. Well, it wasn't long before the pond water turned green. We were abandoned by the 'pond and lake specialist' that the previous home owner used.
We had the pond was drained and refilled a couple of times, which of course did nothing.
Finally, I found someone to actually come and look at my pond. "You need fish and more plants to balance this out." This didn't really help either.
So next phase: "what you really need is filtration." By this time I was so sick of looking at the green water. I had done some, obviously not enough, research and found some info on the Iogen and UV filtration. Last summer, we priced rebuilding the feature to add a skimmer and biofalls. I asked for the iogen filtration because I wanted to be sure to be rid of the green algae, and wasn't dissuaded from that. So it's hard to complain when I'm partially responsible for this.
I'm still learning about this pond. Today, it's looking great and fish are doing quite well considering. And if this doesn't work out, maybe a rock garden is more my speed.
Thanks for all your input this weekend. It was the most help we've gotten from anywhere.
Deb
PS: Yes, I know now that a lot of the green I was seeing was not algae but phytoplankton.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Deb what Meyer is saying that until you stand up to these manufactureres then accidents like this are going to happen time and again until someone makes a stand on the issue and takes the dealership to court to hit them where it hurts hardest their bank accounts .
Personally I look at ideas such as this, weigh up the pros and cons read about it from other either satisfied or dis satisfied customers and sources like Meyer.
It is only then if all the issues involved work that we will hink about trying it .
Personally Deb for a pond your size I think you were over sold by either the shop dealership or by the people who sell the Ionizer and there you have just cause "overkill".
"A very well put together Article Meyer and I tend to agree with you that Ionizing a pond can lead to copper toxidity, when offered an Ionizer to trial by our local dealership when we moved outdoors I'm now really glad that we didnt take him up on his offer.
I have the text book of fish health (George Post) in our book collection what page are you refaring too when you give your levels of toxidity out ?
I've a feeling the person was over sold equipment for her pond at 550 Usgallons its on the small side you have to admit ".

Dave

I believe it was in Chapter 11. I can't find my original notes for this article, but I know that they are somewhere on my computer.

 

[Dave 54]

Will take a look Meyer then get back to you my friend

Dave

 

[Deb Taylor]

I was not referring to the book. I was using the numbers on the copper test kit provided with the iogen filter. The warning on the test kit indicates the levels above .25 ppm can be toxic to invertebrates and may cause long-term fish issues. Our tests on Saturday showed something between .6 and .8 ppm.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I was not referring to the book. I was using the numbers on the copper test kit provided with the iogen filter. The warning on the test kit indicates the levels above .25 ppm can be toxic to invertebrates and may cause long-term fish issues. Our tests on Saturday showed something between .6 and .8 ppm.

Without a doubt, a very toxic condition.