Our gold fish are ailing

[Deb Taylor]

We have ruled out nitrates, ammonia, ph as causes and are zeroing on the iogen filter and the copper levels in the pond.
As we were having some algae issues, the pond installer recommended turning the setting to 4 or 6. oopsie. So, does anyone know how to get the remove the copper from the pond or is a water change the only solution.

 

[MitchM]

Can you describe you pond, or post a picture? (water volume, filtration, fish and plant population, water test numbers)
How are your fish ailing?
How did copper get into the pond?
What does your maintenance schedule consist of?
There are products available to remove heavy metals, but copper doesn't typically affect vertebrate creatures.

Oh, and welcome. btw.

 

[MitchM]

Never mind about the copper question, ionizers release copper into the pond......
Ionizers are what I consider to be an exotic addition to pond filtration.

Answers to the other questions will help a lot.

 

[Deb Taylor]

The fish are lethargic and have been at the surface gulping air off and on. For the last couple of weeks, they keep getting in to the skimmer. We have 550 gallon biofalls, with an iogen filter newly rebuilt last fall.
They had been doing fine during the winter and early spring when the iogen filter was off. When the weather warmed, we set the iogen filter to 2, but because of the algae we were told to increase the iogen to 5.

Other microbes have been added according to recommendations.

Found this in reference to copper toxicity -
It is important, however, to know the signs and symptoms of Copper toxicity in Koi. One of the earliest effects of too much copper is apparent fish hypoxia, the loss of ability to use oxygen. Common symptoms of initial acute toxicity are fish gasping, disoriented (ataxic) at the surface, due to copper's hemolytic (blood cell splitting) and mucus-producing effects. Copper is a proteinaceous precipitant; that is, it causes your fish to produce more mucus. This may aid the in the suffocation or sloughing off of parasites, but also interferes with respiration through their skin and gills. from - http://ripplesinc.blogspot.com/2011/12/are-pond-ionizers-safe-you-be-judge.html

So I am off to get the fish into a holding tank, until I can get the copper levels down in the pond.

 

[MitchM]

Nice looking pond.
I don't see an algae issue.
Turn off the iogen filter.
Do a 50% water change (safely, if you use treated water)
Please post the water test numbers ( whatever ones that you have)
Don't add any more microbes, solutions or chemicals.
By the looks of your pond design, I don't see any reason that it shouldn't be healthy otherwise.

 

[MitchM]

That link you posted is from Meyer Jordan, who is an active member here.
I'm sure he will see this post.
I look forward to his input.

 

[Lisak1]

@Meyer Jordan Can you add any advice for this poster?

 

[Mmathis]

Welcome!

I might have missed it, but how big [dimensions and gallons] is your pond, and how many/what size, and what kind of fish do you have? How long has your pond been established? Have you done anything different lately, such as adding new fish?

 

[Deb Taylor]

tested copper at 7.5 max is 2.5 for fish ponds. iogen's been off for 24 hours. we are rigging some carbon filtration to see if we can get the copper levels down. the fish are being moved to a temp tank. we are not equipped to do a water change at this point, but we need to if the carbon doesn't do the trick.

One good sign the fish are rather lively when you try to catch them. Last night they were pretty lethargic.

 

[Lisak1]

Sadly it sounds like you got IonGen recommendations from someone who didn't really have good information on how to use it or how it should work. We installed an IonGen on our system, but it has never worked because of water salinity issues, I think. Not really sure. But it's money I wish we would have saved, that's for sure.

 

[MitchM]

Copper will bind to dissolved organic compounds, which will be adsorbed by activated carbon, so the carbon will help.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

So sorry to hear about your fish.
What you have described are typical symptoms of Copper toxicity.
All that you can do at this time is to rip out the Iongen and toss it and do a 50% water change immediately followed by another 50% in a couple of days.The Carbon will not make much of a difference if your pond is relatively clean. What MitchM says is true, however the organics present in your pond are likely staurated with Copper at this point and will absorb no more leaving Copper in suspension to be absorbed by the fish. The remaining fish may or may not recover. If they do, it will likely be a slow recovery.
I wish that you had read my article before you purchased the Iongen. Sadly, manufacturers are still selling this dangerous device knowing full well the dangers. At least my article forced them to change their advertising from "Safe for Fish" to "Can be used with Fish" which still implies that the device is safe, but gets them off the hook as regards product liability.
I urge every member of this Forum to read this article. What has happened to Deb and countless others could have been avoided if people were given the true facts.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I have posted the article on Ionizers to the 'Article' section of this Forum so that all members may easily access it.

 

[Lisak1]

Thanks Meyer. Good information to have. I think I may try to get my money back on the IonGen I purchased based on this information. The company we bought it from now advertises it as:

• Compatible with water containing fish and plants

Hmmmm.... "compatible" is not the same as safe. I guess I should be happy ours never worked!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Thanks Meyer. Good information to have. I think I may try to get my money back on the IonGen I purchased based on this information. The company we bought it from now advertises it as:

• Compatible with water containing fish and plants

Hmmmm.... "compatible" is not the same as safe. I guess I should be happy ours never worked!

Yes, you dodged the bullet!