Pond Max pressurized filter with UV and backwash--thoughts

[kmarcel]

Thanks Tula, I can deal with once a week for about 15 minutes. It's adding more filtration which I know I need. Do you keep the UV going all the time or just certain times such as the spring?

 

[crsublette]

It is a Pond Max brand and according to the pond people who I use it's a new product that is what they call "great". I don't know how to do a DIY bio filter - sorry, just don't want to get into all that plumbing, drilling holes into a canister, etc. Thought this might be the way to go. I feel like I need a bigger canister type of set up where the water will go through after the skimmer, which would be the bio filter that will grow the good bacteria.

I have had ongoing fish health problems all summer, very frustrating. Three weeks ago I did a Prazi Pond, which was the 3rd treatment after doing 2 treatments in early June. One of my koi was sitting on the bottom alone with fins clamped, reddish color (stress related I believe) and spitting out any food. We did a scrape in early June for parasites and found flukes after a lot of flashing. Once I did the 2nd round of Prazi treatment within 2 days it was up swimming and eating and seemed great. Flash forward 2 weeks later (this weekend) same thing sitting, fins clamped and red. So now I have done another treatment which will be 3 in just this 2nd round. Now it's fine again.

I'm afraid I'm going to go through this every summer if I don't get a better filter system and was told this was the way to go. Now I am really unsure what to do. I don't want something that is going to break after spending all this money (which is a lot for this system, a larger pump and labor) and smells bad resulting in constant cleaning.

You should try out the Novak Anoxic filter before doing one of those "all in one" pressure canister filters. The only plumbing involved is a pump, of any size, moving water into the filter. However, it does require a fair amount of construction, that is depending on how you approach it. The cost to build it will amount to be about the same, or a little higher, than the PondMax canister filter and will be much better.

Unfortunately, if you do not want to DIY, that is involved plumbing, possibly drilling holes, etc, then there is no cheap way to go. All of the good quality, craftsman made filters are a "tad" (which means potentially alot) more expensive than a these cheap "all in one" pressure canister filters. If you want anything cheap in this hobby in context of filtration, then DIY is the name of the game.

 

[Tula]

Thanks Tula, I can deal with once a week for about 15 minutes. It's adding more filtration which I know I need. Do you keep the UV going all the time or just certain times such as the spring?

I run my UV light all the time, at least this summer I have. Mine is an Easy Pro 2500 and I've had it several years. I bring it inside in Nov., as it will crack and freeze in winter weather.

 

[fishin4cars]

I am not a fan of all in one pressurized filters at all. I run multiple ponds with each having different filter types. By far the one with the pressurized filter is the biggest PITA, I have to clean it to often, it's not a stable environment for bio filtration, the UV lights for the most part only last a short time and then become quite ineffective. Actually I have a 800 gallon pond with nothing but plants and a airstone and it runs better than the pond with the pressurized filter. That being said, the one with no filter is fairly heavy stocked but not with Koi or goldfish. It has Labyrith fish and a lot of oxygen generating plants and a LOT of surface coverage with lilies and hyacinths so the water is quite shade.
Personally I would look into doing one of the proven DIY filters, Most can be built for less than the cost of the pressurized filter, be far more effective and take less than a weekend if not less than a day to put together.

 

[kmarcel]

The general consensus is that they are not good. My question is what could I have installed that is not a pressurized biofilter? I am not a DIY and need some type of filtration system installed other than my two skimmers.

Charles, I am not trying to go cheap with my pond and believe me the cost for labor and this filter and pump isn't cheap. I just would like to hire someone to do this instead of trying to do this myself. Aren't there any kind of filters that can be bought that are similar to the DIY ones that you all seem to make that are not pressurized? The Novak filter looks pretty complicated. I will have to read more about it.

My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that the pressurized system do not have any oxygen and therefore may either not be sufficient in growing bacteria - and could do more harm that good? Is that why everyone is giving them a thumbs down?

 

[sissy]

you could try one they have them cheaper on ebay .I saw one there for 149 dollars.Not sure that is cheaper than what you are looking at in pressurized .The end of season you can get them cheaper lots of labor day sales also

 

[crsublette]

1) The general consensus is that they are not good. My question is what could I have installed that is not a pressurized biofilter? I am not a DIY and need some type of filtration system installed other than my two skimmers.

2) Charles, I am not trying to go cheap with my pond and believe me the cost for labor and this filter and pump isn't cheap. 3) I just would like to hire someone to do this instead of trying to do this myself. 4) Aren't there any kind of filters that can be bought that are similar to the DIY ones that you all seem to make that are not pressurized? The Novak filter looks pretty complicated. I will have to read more about it.

5) My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that the pressurized system do not have any oxygen and therefore may either not be sufficient in growing bacteria - and could do more harm that good? Is that why everyone is giving them a thumbs down?

1) The general consensus is that they are not good.

Well, go ahead and use it, but you asked us for our thoughts and this is just what we shared due to our experiences. Some folk are having good success with them. You might get along good for a while with it.


2) Charles, I am not trying to go cheap with my pond and believe me the cost for labor and this filter and pump isn't cheap.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but just trying to look out for ya. I read and see too many beginners spend all sorts of money on stuff they soon replace after a year or so or even sooner.

To you it is not cheap, however, in the context of the pond hobby, it is cheap. This is why many will DIY their own quilt batting filter or build a skippy (as shown in the DIY section). Tough to get by without DIY'n in the pond hobby.


3) I just would like to hire someone to do this instead of trying to do this myself.

Actually, you are lucky for being in Syracuse. There is a very good and well known koi and watergarden club in your area. I bet these people will be glad to help you out in getting your pond running right with a proper filter system.

All of these folk are good people as far as I am aware.

For contact information, Koi and Water Garden Society of Central New York (6th entry down on the page). They also run a quite excellent website with many incredibly useful calculators at CNYKoi.


4) Aren't there any kind of filters that can be bought that are similar to the DIY ones that you all seem to make that are not pressurized?

Since you've asked, for products that I would look into using, here are some choices for you to think about..

If all you want is a bio-filter, then a wet/dry bio-filter such as Tetra's Clearchoice PF-1 trickle filter (500gph max flow rate), $85. This would do a much better job at bio-filter rather then the PondMax pressure canister. However, it is a gravity flow return to the pond so it would need to be at a place near the pond or at the head of the waterfall. Also, this is a quite cheap construction of a wet/dry bio-filter, but it will do better than the PondMax.

If you want a very good performing and aesthetically pleasing wet/dry filter, then check out Deepwater Koi Innovations, owned/operated by Zakk Penn. Here is a video his below. Price is $350 plus shipping. Some pricing in the forum thread, Zakki Showers on his other showers. These prices are 3.5 years old so best to call Mr. Penn to know for sure on the price.

Mr. Penn is a small businessman and a craftsman for the pond hobby. He only uses high quality materials and this is shown in the price. He also, upon request, will itemize the cost of all the parts to show how little he marks up his products. He builds all his products himself and he does provide a guarantee with them. He is a small businessman so he understands what it means to have good customer service. He is also truly an inventor and gets his products patent certified.

These craftsman are the carpenters of the pond hobby and are quite rare. Unfortunately, there are not that many out there. Many of the pond hobby craftsman only sell "kits", which entails a DIY expectation that the customer will provide particular materials and hole drilling to finish the product. Mr. Penn is the best one I am aware of that sells a completed product.

Mr. Penn also sells the best particulate filters out there, that I am aware of and does not have a crazy price tag as found with the really fancy stuff.

You would need a particulate filter prior to the wet/dry filter above. So, you could install an in-line pressurized particulate canister filter with UV, Ocean Clear In-Line Filter.

Before the Ocean Clear filter you will need a pre-filter. A pre-filter removes the really big stuff so that it does not cause problems. For externals, the In-Line Leaf Basket for external pumps would work. For submersible pumps, then the Tetra Pond Cylinder Pre-filter would work.

So it goes like this.... Pre-filter -> Pump -> Particulate Filter -> Bio-Filter


5) My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that the pressurized system do not have any oxygen and therefore may either not be sufficient in growing bacteria - and could do more harm that good? Is that why everyone is giving them a thumbs down?

Nah, it is just a flawed, cheap design and they do not use good materials to make them. These type of filters have been around for a long time. Those PondMax pressure canister type filters is a remnant of the aquarium hobby trying to be translated into the pond hobby and they're cheap and easy for retailers to put on their store shelves.

Hobbyists have taken the idea and improved them with what is called a ERIC, Nexus Eazy Filter, and Bead filter.

The ERIC is by far the best, "all in one", particulate filter plus submerged static media, built ready for you, filter that I know of. Exclusively sold by GreatWave Engineering.

The Nexus Eazy is by far the best, "all in one", particulate filter plus moving bed filter, built ready for you, filter that I know of. Information about it at Nexus Eazy. For a US retailer, USAKoi is one of them, but I think they're a little high in their price. You need to do some shopping around for this one.

Bead fiters were designed to clean the water and act as a bio-filter at same time, but I never liked them. The best one I know of is, made by hobbyists as well, Advantage Bead Filter (which is the best bead filter I am aware of).

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Those PondMax pressure canister type filters is a remnant of the aquarium hobby trying to be translated into the pond hobby and they're cheap and easy for retailers to put on their store shelves.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement. Because of their small size they are easy to stock and ship, and that's why so many retailers push them.
I feel some of the back-flushing designs could be used successfully on smaller ponds (500 gal or less) if they were designed to be used exclusively as mechanical filters, and the ponds utilized some other form of practical biological filtration. I remember the one pressure filter I got sucked into buying when I first got into ponding had about a half dozen 2" bio-balls in it, and that was suppose to be good for ponds up to 1000 gallons according to the advertising specs on it. LOL

 

[fishin4cars]

Charles, Love your post, Very well written and explained, Mucky, you as well. I think they are OK for mechanical filtration, biological yes they are designed to be, problem is, they clog, they aren't effective for much more than a fish or two and that's if maintained properly which few rarely are. I'm using a Zac Penn complete set-up. I love it but a complete set-up is not cheap. For a small pond a sower filter is a good start, Charles mentions the tetra trickle. that's the first time I have heard of it but I'm glad to see tetra stepping up to the plate for a decent over the counter filtration system, IF it works properly....
Why are you scared of DIY, it's a fun project, it get's you more involved with what you have going on and you can make adjustments to fit your budget and available space. There are so many to look into, Sand Gravel filters, Moving bed filters, up-flow filters, bog filters, and shower/trickle filters all can be easily be adapted, each has it's own drawback and benefits but they also all have been proven to work.

 

[mrsclem]

No one has mentioned Savio waterfall filters. Basically a pre-made diy. Not cheap but easy to clean, just open the valve on the bottom and mine has done a good job with my ponds.

 

[Tula]

My challenge with filtration is space. I didn't plan well when we built our pond and have it against a stone patio, so really don't have room for a DIY filter....plus I have to be honest, no way of "hiding" it. I've been thinking of new filtration, so will research it more over the winter.

 

[koiguy1969]

I had a fishmate 2500gal pressure filter given to me as a freind tore down his pond to move. i used it for a while. but i removed the medias that came with it and stacked blue cut to fit furnace filters in it as strictly mechanical filtration...back washed in about 1 minute. but the multifunction idea is a poor one.

 

[crsublette]

I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement. Because of their small size they are easy to stock and ship, and that's why so many retailers push them.
I feel some of the back-flushing designs could be used successfully on smaller ponds (500 gal or less) if they were designed to be used exclusively as mechanical filters, and the ponds utilized some other form of practical biological filtration. I remember the one pressure filter I got sucked into buying when I first got into ponding had about a half dozen 2" bio-balls in it, and that was suppose to be good for ponds up to 1000 gallons according to the advertising specs on it. LOL

Yeah, once I got a better bio-filter, I was hoping to use my pressurized canister filter just as a particulate mechanical filter. Worked fine until the gasket worn out, which was an easy fix for me DIY. Then, the strap that seals the canister got worn out; I tried to bend it back into shape so that it would seal the canister again, but never could get it to seal. So, now it is a trash can. Just cheap materials is why it failed as a particulate filter. However, for a bio-filter, these small canister filters should never be viewed as a bio-filter. Terrible bio-filter.

The Ocean Clear In-Line filter was exactly how I was hoping to use the old Laguna pressure canister. These could also be easily DIY with a bucket and a gamma seal lid along with properly installed holes and plumbing.

PondMax actually is quite neat with how it is supposed to "squeeze" the foam pads during back flushes so to clean the pads without removing them. However, I wonder how long this would last though.

 

[crsublette]

No one has mentioned Savio waterfall filters. Basically a pre-made diy. Not cheap but easy to clean, just open the valve on the bottom and mine has done a good job with my ponds.

Yep, they're much like a "Skippy" filter. I have seen questionable performance from the waterfall filters and skippy filters as well, but the construction of them are much better than these small retail pressurized canister filters. Aquascape also makes a decent line of waterfall filters.

 

[crsublette]

My challenge with filtration is space. I didn't plan well when we built our pond and have it against a stone patio, so really don't have room for a DIY filter....plus I have to be honest, no way of "hiding" it. I've been thinking of new filtration, so will research it more over the winter.

You should really look into my previous post#22. The pre-filter, in-line particulate filter, then the trickle bio-filter tower is an excellent space saving filter system. If you do not have space for Mr. Penn's trickle tower, then you can look into Bright AgroTech's Zip Grow trickle tower that you can mount on your stone wall or mounted in some place so that it can gravity flow return back into the pond.

Tricky part might be figuring out how to place the filter so it can gravity flow back into the pond. You can put ornamental plants in the Zip Grow tower that could hide the post if you place the post on the backside of the pond. Or... If you have the room to mount a good looking wood carved post next to your pond, then have a spacer on the post so to allow the filter to gravity flow the water back into the pond. I can see how this would look quite nice depending on if you can find a neat artsy post.

Sure, this is not going to be as cheap as the pressure canister filters, but, unless you entirely DIY it all, an excellent performing, space saving complete filter system will never be cheaper than these pressure canister filters.