Pond Start - Beneficial Bacteria

[oldmarine]

KoiKeeper, you make a good point. I to was quite impatient in the beginning, and couldn't understand why my pond water went to heck so quickly instead of the other way around.

That's one good reason I have always come back to this forum. There are pond veterans like you and many others that are so willing to share their pond knowledge and experience with others.

Happy ponding,

 

[philljp]

Well, i may be getting this stuff then:

Microbe Lift Gel Filter Inoculant:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Microbe-Lift-...m&pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item4838451640

 

[koikeepr]

yep, that's the stuff most folks tend to use. Again, you could just wait the 6-8 weeks and let things happen naturally, or you can spend the cash and buy the goop.

 

[Squidhead]

I am a skeptic when it comes to these products. I am also patient. Most of all I am cautious. I don't mind speeding up what takes place establishing a nitrogen cycle. I've done this many times starting fishtanks. I do a fishless cycle by first spiking my water with a chemical....ammonia. I use ordinary household, no frills, plain ammonia. Usually a bottle that says the words under ingredients "ammonia and water". Of course it has no scents added and no soaps. I shake the bottle in question good to make sure it doesn't sud. Since there are no fish, I spike the ammonia until it tests 4 ppm. Then I add media from an already existing tank to the new filter to "seed" it. I have established a cycle in as little as 3 days and as long as 28 using this method. It is "natural" because it is existing bacteria, but transfered. I would not have a problem using a product that had the type of bacteria that is live or suspended somehow. There was a product that was proven to work called Bio-Spira. I have recently learned that the formula has changed to a formula that doesn't have to be refridgerated. Along with that, the scientist who invented it for Marineland has left and started his own company and further research into "bacterias in a bottle". The skepticism in most of these products is if they really work. I myself have tested a few that made these claims and none of them did squat. I tested 2 new 10 gallon tanks, with identical filters. One with the product, the other without. I followed the products directions to the letter. None did anything. I never tried Bio-Spira, but a friend, talk about skeptics, that I trust has, and it worked. The products I tested where bio-zyme, cycle, and a couple that I don't even remember their names....none worked. Out of curiosity I am going to pick up some of the microbe lift gel. Only $11, shipping will be free because I have other stuff I am ordering. I don't mind giving things a chance, but right off the bat I don't like the claims it makes. That doesn't mean it wont work, just don't like their choice of words. It sends up a red flag.

 

[koikeepr]

Right, ammonia is a by-product of fish pee--which is how you begin cycling a pond when you use fish. Of course, you risk the fishes lives, so it is often best to do a fishless cycle for sure to be humane.

 

[philljp]

This is a very interesting debate, and I'd love to know the results of your test with microbe life Squidhead.

 

[koikeepr]

When I started my pond up last week, I did buy a jar of the Micro Lift bacteria (around $40 at my local pond shop) and 1 bottle of the one that Lowe's has, which is the Beckett brand ($25). I used them both together and poured them into the bio filter. However, I also took the media (2 matala mats and 2 bags of bactitwist) out of my old pond and put it in the new pond.

After 1 week of being up and running, My water happens to be crystal clear and I can see perfectly all the way to the bottom.

Do I really think the stuff in the bottle worked--even tho I am a complete skeptic? The combination of the two obviously did something I think. This is the first time I used the product. Now that I have fish in the pond, I certainly wouldn't spend the money again on these things, come next Spring. It will be all natural--and cheaper.

 

[Squidhead]

I would bet the farm the filters from the existing pond did more then the products did. It could also be that one of them had some ammonia or nitrite or both to help it along. I know when I tested one of the products (I think "Cycle") that I "experimented" with the nitrites where off the hook. I think thats how that particular product works?????
With all this said I found out Bio-Spira is no longer available. Marineland changed the name to "SAFESTART" and no longer needs to be refridgerated. "Instant Ocean" seems to have got the rights for Bio-Spira for salt water. A trusted friend told me the scientist who developed Bio Spira for marineland left and started his own company. Before he left he was trying to develop the bacteria in a bottle or powder that didn't need to be refridgerated. Maybe, it had been completed??? Interesting, almost worth e-mailing him and see if he'd answer that:dunno:

When I started my pond up last week, I did buy a jar of the Micro Lift bacteria (around $40 at my local pond shop) and 1 bottle of the one that Lowe's has, which is the Beckett brand ($25). I used them both together and poured them into the bio filter. However, I also took the media (2 matala mats and 2 bags of bactitwist) out of my old pond and put it in the new pond.

After 1 week of being up and running, My water happens to be crystal clear and I can see perfectly all the way to the bottom.

Do I really think the stuff in the bottle worked--even tho I am a complete skeptic? The combination of the two obviously did something I think. This is the first time I used the product. Now that I have fish in the pond, I certainly wouldn't spend the money again on these things, come next Spring. It will be all natural--and cheaper.

 

[Squidhead]

This is a very interesting debate, and I'd love to know the results of your test with microbe life Squidhead.

I will do that. I always share what I find. Payback to those that helped and continue to help me. I really am only interested in the truth about products. One thing I've noticed in the aquarium hobby no matter what type pond, tropical or marine, there is a good deal of debate. I have been let down by some things and products in the past, guess that's why I am such a skeptic. I truly hope that either one of the products works. If so I will stand by it. I am no chemist by any means, just a goofball who likes this sort of stuff.

 

[koiguy1969]

to each their own but when i built my first pond.. i only had the small 10 gallon Tetrapond bf1 filter (the one koikeepr claims is so crappy). i used the pl gel filter innoculant from microbe lift...i didnt know wether it was good or bad but i had in the neighborhood of 40. 4 and 5 inch fish in my pond in about 2 weeks. i used test strips and my favorite pond store did free testing of water parameters. they used the pl gel on their 20 or so filtration systems for their sales vats. well i never had an ammonia reading nor nitrite or nitrate...so to this day i never have a reading other than 0. so be it as it may i will continue to use the two products i use...if you go to Meijers the Organica pristine pond bacteria which is $25.00 at a pond store is only $11.00.and for maintainence dosing one bottle lasts all season...and my water quality and clarity is fantastic all the time....and i have less than $300.00 in my whole system including my pump. so if you think $11.00 is too much for that little extra help and piece of mind, so be it.
i also dont do 20% water changes my water changes are shy of 10%. so i can only attest to the fact that what i'm doing is working and "if it aint broke dont fix it!!"

 

[koikeepr]

If it works for your situation, koiguy, no one is telling you to change a thing. Most folks aren't as meticulous as you about their ponds, so I always suggest 20% changes (which is considered the general standard). If someone isn't as meticulous (and sadly most people aren't), then a 10% change will do nothing for them.

If you've got products that continue to be proven to work for you, go to town, and we would love to hear about them. The conversation at hand here is whether folks think they legitimately work or not. Clearly, you are on the side that they do. There are many that are skeptics. I used to be a skeptic, and now I'm on the fence based on my experience. To Squidhead's point, it could have just been my old media doing things...don't know if the bottle bacteria helped any. But it certainly appears it didn't hurt.

And I stand by my comments on that filter being crappy. It leaks, is hard to clean, hard to open the top and someone would get more benefit out of a DIY barrel--even a smaller one. I would not recommend that filter to anyone.

What's with the defensive tone in the last two days? Should you have an issue, please do PM me--otherwise I look forward to your continued lively opinions.

 

[koiguy1969]

o.k its things like that ...the filter comes disassembled you have to put it together so if it leaks its your assembly, not the filers fault...and i have never had any kind of difficulty in opening mine...now if your pump is after it then theres a vaccuum and the lid may give a some trouble. but thats not its intended hook up. and i dont understand what was so difficult to clean...at its worste it takes less than 5 minutes in my experience... mine is now an upflow filter, i made a skimmer adapter for it, and i use it as a fines filter, all as needed easy conversions i made so they can be swapped out as needed... that filters paid for itself many times over, for me.that said i will drop the subject!!!

 

[koikeepr]

LOL!

Let's just say I'm a girl and opening that filter for me was like opening up a jar of pickles. PITA to take that lid off every time. When it comes to filter covers (like pickle jars), I don't want to have to say, "honey, can you open this up for me?" Folks don't have to take my word for it, our very smart users can google the consumer reviews and read the very same things I'm talking about.

Glad it's worked for you, koiguy. I look forward to conversing with you on other subjects.

 

[PS3]

i have no idea if my Beneficial Bacteria even started yet lol. this wensday it will be about 4 weeks when i added the gel.but from that time the water was below
55 for a while but from last monday its been abover 65 which is good.
and today my brother fixed the outlet so i now have the uv light runing
with its own pump and i have the other pump runing the skippy i built
iam geting a test kit this week

 

[philljp]

I still have not bought any bacteria yet. My filter has been running for about 5 weeks, but with the UV light (inside the filter) turned on. Does this mean no beneficial bacteria would have established?

If I do switch off the UV light for a bit, when I turn it back on, wont it just kill the bacteria again?