Relined due to leak & now ammonia is spiking & fish look affected by it

[sissy]

I keep my ph for my koi at 8 or 8.5 as it seems like it is the best for them .If it goes down to 7 which it did when I rebuilt the pond they seemed to have problems .I could see the change in them and raised the ph and try to keep it at 8

 

[MitchM]

... He said it wouldn't set back the cycling because bacteria stick to the pond walls and rocks and filters etc. so a water change would be ok. Pond person said the same. ...

Bacteria in the biofilm are attracted to the walls and surfaces of a pond because that is where the nutrients are.
First the nutrients have to accumulate on the pond submerged surfaces, after which the bacteria will populate the biofilm.
That process takes time.
This situation is why is is so important to allow the biofilm to mature before adding fish. At this point, we are trying to make the best out of a bad situation.
I've read posts from pond store owners that have no problem losing a few fish to the initial cycling of a pond and later salting to prevent nitrite poisoning, all in an effort to rush the process and make the customer happy by giving them an "instant" pond.

It makes no sense to me to change the water in your pond with rain water that has a high PH or tap water with existing ammonia in it.

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[Meyer Jordan]

I keep my ph for my koi at 8 or 8.5 as it seems like it is the best for them .If it goes down to 7 which it did when I rebuilt the pond they seemed to have problems .I could see the change in them and raised the ph and try to keep it at 8

Fish will adapt to different pH levels. It is when these levels experience a large change is when problems develop. Raising or lowering a pH level that fish have already adapted to is inviting disaster.

 

[sissy]

true that is why I leave mine . last year when I redid my pond I kept a piece of the old liner and put it in the new pond because of the good muck on it .I did learn something on here I even saved as much of the pond water as possible ,even though it was not much since the pond had been leaking for a month .I was really worried about all this rain and my pond leaking ,but so far it has just been a little cloudy water .I put the last of the water from the stock tanks in today .I learned something from ponddigger about moving fish also that you should not feed them before because stress will cause an ammonia spike

 

[sissy]

I asked him to do a video on what he told me last year about rebuilding my pond and moving my fish to there new home and he gave me lots of good info that helped my fish .No matter what kind of move it is stressful to the fish

 

[Mattie]

Thanks everybody. My fish and I are victims of one of those store people. Thing is, even as an absolute newbie, I had my concerns, worries, questions and requests, all of which were rejected, and I quote, with, "don't read the Internet, people on the Internet don't know what they are talking about." I didn't want an instant pond. I just felt helpless as I was watching my pond leak and thought I was getting help from an expert. So I hope this thread will at least serve to prevent others from making this mistake. Part of my mistake was being polite and giving in over things like saving the existing pond water. (Sissy are there other tips he gave you that I could still do?) But yes, as we try to make the best of this, I will continue to hold off on water changes and I will be ordering zeolite. I have never added salt to the pond, but the previous owners left a bucket of pond salt. Would adding a little help the fish's coats heal and protect them a little in case all the stress and moving has opened them up to infection while also getting the pond ready for the hopefully coming nitrites? Or is it best to hold on that too? Could they be agitated too because they are hungry? Don't worry, I won't feed them. Just wondering. And finally, the liner smells very strongly. Can liners irritate fish as they outgas?

 

[MitchM]

Mattie, you said in your original post that there was one fish in particular that was thrashing a lot. Is this the same fish that seems to be flashing the most?

I don't like any kind of off gassing. Some activated carbon would help adsorb any chemical irritants and using carbon won't hurt anything. You would need about 3 pounds for your pond, you could place it in a mesh bag in the skimmer or filter, wherever it would receive steady water flow. Rinse it first to remove fine dust.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

And finally, the liner smells very strongly. Can liners irritate fish as they outgas?

'Fish Safe' EPDM liner does not 'outgas'.
Everyone here has assumed that your new liner is "fish safe' EPDM. Was a liner of different chemical composition installed? PVC? Polyethylene? Polypropolene? Was this roofing membrane?

 

[Mattie]

Meyer and Mitch, All I know is that it came from the fish store where the expert works and was 30 mil. The fish person at a different store today told me it couldn't be EPDM because EPDM doesn't come less than 45 mil. It came in a plastic package and was 15 x 20. So I doubt it was roofing membrane. The "expert" said it was better than what I had in there before saying it looked like Home Depot special. I doubt that was the case. I'll get the carbon. Do I need activated carbon made for fish keeping? This just gets worse and worse. I really feel like an idiot.

 

[Mattie]

Mitch, The same fish that has been most affected, remains most affected (Louise), but the others are flashing and agitated as well.

 

[MitchM]

Don't feel bad. You're doing what you can for your fish now, that's what's important.
Meyer has more experience than me with pond liners, I'll let him answer the liner issue.

 

[MitchM]

... Do I need activated carbon made for fish keeping? ..

Yes, a large aquarium store should carry it in bulk. Phone them first to check.

 

[MitchM]

Mitch, The same fish that has been most affected, remains most affected (Louise), but the others are flashing and agitated as well.

I still think that the cause of the flashing is from a compromised slime coat, not because of dangerous water quality.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

30 mil EPDM Pond LIner is no longer manufactured. The pond store was correct. So likely what you purchased was a PVC/vinyl liner. These do have a definite odor but it is not harmful to fish.
Any Activated Charcoal will serve your purpose. You want to purchase it in granular form. Keep in mind that it will likely only be effective for at most 2 to 3 weeks before it becomes chemically saturated. That said, I am not convinced that you need to go to this extra expense to correct an issue that likely does not exist.
Did you test for Nitrite today?

 

[MitchM]

...So likely what you purchased was a PVC/vinyl liner. These do have a definite odor but it is not harmful to fish.
Any Activated Charcoal will serve your purpose. Keep in mind that it will likely only be effective for at most 2 to 3 weeks before it becomes chemically saturated. That said, I am not convinced that you need to go to this extra expense to correct an issue that likely does not exist.
...

If PVC/vinyl presents no danger, then I agree, don't go to the extra expense of the charcoal.