Requesting Feedback: Seeking Guidance for Successful First-Time Pond Build

[ChiDIY]

I'm in the same area as you. One last recommendation - build your falls with the idea of running your pond all winter. Your fish will thank you and you'll love the beautiful winter views!

I definitely want to run my pond all winter; any tips or best practices for building a waterfall that works well in the winter?

Have you had issues with areas of the pond failing due to freezing? I worry about areas that won't have current (bog filter cleanout, etc) that could contain trapped water that freezes and causes issues.

 

[ChiDIY]

Make sure you have enough depth in the waterfall stream or you'll end up chasing leaks. Ask me how I know.

Did you find a best practice depth? Is it more just situational based on the flow rate, shape, rocks, etc?

 

[ChiDIY]

I haven't thought through waterfall design completely but here's my rough idea

• run water from bio filter (black stock tank) to falls
  • 3" or 4" pvc pipe
  • or cut ~ 12" horizontal opening in top of stock tank and attach liner direct to stock tank (kind of like bio-falls)
• for first pool of falls
  • lay liner over top of retaining wall brick
    • I don't like the idea of the liner direct on the brick but I could round the edges or try to cover in dirt
  • rock inside of liner
• for next pool of falls move out from retaining wall aka closer to pond

here's a cross section digram:
- purple = liner
- blue circle = bog filter outflow
- grey rectangle = retaining wall

PVC pipe outflow version:

horizontal opening version

Here's a pic of the waterfall area from the side.

• The first flag is 2' from the outside edge of the retaining wall, and each flag is 2' from the next making a horizontal distance of ~6' 6" from the outside of the retaining wall next to the garage to the pond.
• The top of the bog filter tank is 34" above water level so depending on the outflow design the outflow will be 26" to 30" above water level (or so)

Trying to plan as much as possible to avoid rework, but having never built a waterfall like this I'm not really sure how the water is going to act.

I warmly welcome any thoughts on my proposed approach (in which I have very little confidence)

 

[RMaynard]

The spillway/waterfall outflow from the bog is a bit safer, much less likely to clog. No matter how big the pipes or how many, pipes will always be more likely to clog.

That being said, the bulkhead/pipe option gives you more options for where/how your stream starts, since the pipe can take it where it needs to go rather than needing to start right at the bog outflow.

I used a bulkhead and pipe for a similar bog setup with no problems so far, but acknowledge it's riskier. My pump is in a skimmer, so if there's a major problem with water returning, the pump will dry up/burn out rather than empty the pond and kill the fish.

 

[ChiDIY]

I would also encourage you to keep goldfish rather than koi In a pond that size.

Googling on the subject of Koi pond size I get a wide range of answers from 6'x8' being the minimum to 1,000 to 1,200 gallons being the minimum, etc. I searched around this forum and see individual advice on other folks pond build threads but no general guidance.

What is a good rule of thumb for a pond size that will support Koi?

BTW I'm not deadset on Koi - just wondering.

 

[Mgessert]

Here are a couple of references you might find helpful. I would recommend stocking at half of the recommended rate for a couple of years because it is a new pond and it’s best to work the kinks out before you have a heavy fish load.

How Many Koi Per Gallon? - Fish Vet

How many koi per gallon fit in your koi pond? Plan for the giant your fish will become, not their current tiny size. - cafishvet.com

cafishvet.com

How Many Koi Can I Have In My Pond? (Pond Size Calculator)

How many koi can I have in my pond? Koi pond size calculator guide, including how to correctly stock koi carp in ponds for the best health and growth.

pondinformer.com

Dangerous Rules: How Many Koi Can I Have In My Pond?

Beware of the Dangerous Rules Of Thumb surrounding this question. How Many Koi Can You Have In Your Pond? This is certainly one of the first […]

theponddigger.com

 

[jgrandmont]

Did you find a best practice depth? Is it more just situational based on the flow rate, shape, rocks, etc?

I'd say you want at least a 3-4 inch drop at the top of the falls and more at the bottom to account for increased velocity and splashing.

 

[addy1]

I have a decent sized pond, shubunkins / goldfish only. Way easier to care for flitration, digging up plants etc.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Lisak1]

any tips or best practices for building a waterfall that works well in the winter?

The most important thing is to build the falls wide enough and deep enough to accommodate ice build up. Too shallow or too narrow and the water can be diverted out of the falls.

 

[Lisak1]

What is a good rule of thumb for a pond size that will support Koi?

We have about 4000 gallons in total in our system and we have one koi. We used to have a dozen more but a winter plumbing disaster cost us all but one of them. I will never put koi in a garden pond again. it was a terrible feeling. Every single goldfish we had in the pond during that time survived with flying colors.

Having said that - the "standard" wisdom is often 1000 gallons for the first koi, 250 for each additional. But check this chart and you'll see what the issue is - just compare the amount of waste produced by four 5 inch fish with just one 20 inch fish. Same "inches of fish" (which is another rule of thumb that gets bantered about) but the amount of waste produced is many many MANY times greater by the 20 inch koi. Would you rather have one or two big fish or dozens and dozens of small, multicolored goldfish?

Koi Length and Weight - Ammonia Produced, and Waste Produced

This chart also lists koi weight by weight and how much ammonia and waste they produce. Koi get heavier as they grow and produce more ammonia and waste.

russellwatergardens.com

 

[ChiDIY]

Received the rocks yesterday!

Here are the colors cleaned up & wet

Took 7 hours to move them all into my yard. 2 boulders are still in the alley up against my garage because they were too heavy to move.

Got everything somewhat organized and will continue excavation late next week! Excited to see how this all comes together.

 

[GBBUDD]

a waterfall that works well in the winter?

high sides , wide openings, deep waters.

What is a good rule of thumb for a pond size that will support Koi?

1000 gallons for the first koi or two then 500 after that.

 

[GBBUDD]

You got some rock with character and color nice stuff a good way to start.

 

[CometKeith]

Hello,
First time pond builder & poster here; after many hours of youtube videos & reading this forum I'm finally getting started! Looking for help from folks that have been down this road before - hoping to avoid any big mistakes before finishing excavation and laying down boulders.

Here's my rough plan:

• Natural koi pond with waterfall in climate with cold winters (Chicago - gets down to ~0F / -18C. USDA zone 5/6)
• 12' x 11' by 3' deep with various shelves
  • 20' x 25' 45mil liner for pond
• Skimmer
  • Waterscapes PS4500 skimmer
  • 2,000 GPH pump (for starters - already own a 2K GPH pump)
  • 2" rigid PVC plumbing to bio-filter
  • auto-top off fed by rain barrels connect to house downspouts
  • overflow into dry creek bed or buried catch basin of some sort
• upflow bio filter
  • 150 gallon stock tank
  • breather to avoid siphoning & allow adjusting up-flow rate
  • clean-out for annual cleaning
  • Bio filter flows into waterfall that brings water back to pond
• water level
  • 1" below patio with berm 1" above to divert runoff
    • lowest point of paver patio is the corner closest to the pond (in 2nd screenshot)
  • I think there will be some settling over time

View attachment 158751

Here's a little pond preview - it rained a ton here yesterday:
View attachment 158754


Next steps:

• Order rocks
• Finish excavation
• Lay underlayment & liner
• Start rocking it in

Current challenges

• Selecting rocks
  • I want to go with Aqua Blue (screenshot below) but I've heard they are hard to work with and I'll be doing everything by hand (no room for heavy equipment).
  • View attachment 158753
  • Plan on ordering ~4.5 tons of rock (using 1:2:1 ratio) and 2 tons of gravel
• Making stable shelves in sandy soil
  • a foot below top soil is pure sand/rock and I'm worries it won't hold it's shape well

Anything jump out as something I'll regret later?

Thoughts on aqua blue for someone laying stone by hand? Or any general advice on working with rocks/boulders? I want to use the largest boulders I'll be able to move into place myself or with a helper.

Advice for sandy soil?

I appreciate any wisdom and feedback you can provide

Hi and welcome to GPF! I’m in Chicago too and I might be able to give you some useful advice. You are even welcome to visit my pond if you want. Just send me a dm. A few things I noticed and sorry I didn’t read everything. I would recommend you go to 42” at your deepest part. There are a lot of advantages for that. Your fish will do a lot better in the winter, there will be more protection from predators like raccoons, and it will give you more water volume if you want to keep Koi. Also water runnoff from outside the pond is a bad thing. I recommend you berm the edges around your pond except for your waterfall. If casual water can run in you may get chemicals dirt etc from your yard and lawn that you don’t want going into it. Also you may have trouble with floating liner syndrome where water gets underneath your liner. Also when you are ready to add fish just add a few small ones for the first month until your liner has a good algae coating and your biofilter can build up some useful beneficial bacteria. Good luck with your pond!!

 

[Rugar458]

Googling on the subject of Koi pond size I get a wide range of answers from 6'x8' being the minimum to 1,000 to 1,200 gallons being the minimum, etc. I searched around this forum and see individual advice on other folks pond build threads but no general guidance.

What is a good rule of thumb for a pond size that will support Koi?

BTW I'm not deadset on Koi - just wondering.

250 gal per Koi, they get big and if your not carefull feeding them they can create a huge bio load.