Restoring/improving old pond

[Juppers]

The original owners of my house had a nice pond put in, but the 2nd owners filled in most of it only keeping the waterfall and a small pool, about 3' x 3' x 16". There was a mag 950 running to a 1.5in hose that came out at the top of the rocks for the waterfall. I ran it like that for years but it always bothered me that we found a newpaper article with the original pond and how much nicer it would be to have that. The mag 950 died a year or so ago and we covered the whole thing over with a tarp. This year we decided to clean up the back yard and are looking to expand it back out to it's former glory, or hopefully better.
So far I've decided on a Danner 1800 gph pump, a grech pressure filter with 13w uv, a Danner 8 in waterfall box with biological filtering, and a skimmer feeding the whole loop. I'm deliberating between a floating or in wall skimmer, still learning how each handles fluctuating water levels and which will work best for me. I want to add goldfish and other smaller fish, no koi since I don't think it will be big enough to support them with the space I have available. I estimate the restored/new pond will be a bit under 500 gallons. About 8 ft long in total, sloping from the existing 16in depth to 3 ft and widening to about 6 ft. I want to put in some plant shelves in the new section as well.
Now for the tricky part. I'd like to leave as much of the original waterfall wall as possible and just run a new liner to above the waterline on that end. Since the existing liner runs behind the rock wall, I need to find a way to run my new liner under the existing on that wall or seal it very well where they meet. Am I fighting windmills trying to retain the wall as is? With a smaller pond would I have much benefit looking into a bottom drain? Anything I'm missing before I start this project?

 

[Lisak1]

Welcome!

So here's my thought on the liner and your existing waterfall - if you have two pieces of liner, the liner for the pond should come up the wall and the waterfall liner should come down the wall OVER the pond liner. Anything else, in my opinion, is a recipe for disaster. All you need is for the water to find one little opening to get behind your pond liner... not good.

I'm assuming the pool portion already has liner - a less risky approach may be to join the new liner to the old liner there... although I would still hesitate to do it. The right way is to get it where it needs to go.

As for a bottom drain - personal preference really. Some people swear by them - we don't have one and don't miss it one bit. And I think most everyone would agree you don't need it at all for goldfish.

 

[Juppers]

I've been bouncing between trying to seam the existing liner with the new but so far my reading leads me to believe it would be very tricky to do successfully since I don't think I could get that side flat enough. I'll be looking more into that after I get the new section dug out so I'll know how flat/folded the existing liner will be once it is freed from the earth.

 

[sissy]

no bottom drain here and 5000 gallons and don't miss it like said .A net and done cleaning the bottom .I don't even have a skimmer but I have no trees near by .When getting a pump look at head height ,meaning how far the water has to travel outside the water and energy cost is another thing .Electric rates are not going down .

 

[Juppers]

After a bit more sniffing around, it appears the entire wall of the pond all the way around is stacked stone same as above the waterline with no underlayment between the liner and the rocks. The existing liner is about 20 years old. I think I'm going to have to pull it all and start fresh. Is it wise to have stone walls all the way down like that? My concern is the raised ground in the waterfall corner may collapse in if I take out all those rocks, and damage/dislodge the japanese maple that lives up there. I'd really like to not disturb it if at all possible.

 

[sissy]

I would if the liner is 20 years old .I would hate to put all that work into it and find out the liner is going bad or leaks after that

 

[Juppers]

I'm more worried about removing the rocks under the waterline. The liner is over them, so I could pull the stack above the waterline to release the liner without risking the entire wall falling. Maybe keep the rock wall along that portion and put a double layer of underlayment to protect the new liner. Remove the rest of the rock wall that isn't in that corner. I'm adding a trip to the local pond shop to get their opinion later today. I wasn't planning on visiting them until I had the new hole dug.

 

[Juppers]

In not depressing news I seem to be able to grow frogs at will. All I have to do is turn off the waterfall and the next morning I have a frog. Today's is a little guy, I've moved him to a small terrarium for the day and will let him go tonight when it isn't so hot so he has a chance to find new water. We were draining the pond and moving the rock around and he almost got smooshed.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Could you post a better close-up photo of the waterfall area?

 

[sissy]

pics of it may help .You may have to use wood to hold everything back and make sure there is no rain in the forecast until you are done .If you can get help it would be better than risking trying to do it yourself .3 or 4 people and get it done fast

 

[Juppers]

Sure. Here are some closer pics of the wall/waterfall area.

 

[sissy]

they will have to be unstacked slowly .I would be ready with a tarp and wrap it around the dirt and stack it to the ground behind the pond to help hold back the dirt .Thing is putting it back together .

 

[sissy]

I can still see the lines on the liner are you sure it is as old as you think .Because to me it looks newer

 

[Juppers]

I'm the 3rd owner and have lived here since 2003. The house was built in 1993. The second owners bought the house in 2000. So the original pond was put in between 1993 and 2000, then reduced to a water feature sometime between 2000 and 2003. This is what it looked like around 2000, taken from the sale sheet when the original owners put it on the market. I have a newspaper article with a better picture, but can't find it. The liner is at least 14 years old if the 2nd owners replaced it when they downsized it.

 

[sissy]

It does not leak that you have seen .