Salt in pond water?

[sissy]

I just put it this way something may work for one person but not another .I have tried lots of filters and filter material over the years and still love lava rock but that is me and not everyone .Just like I am a vegetarian but not 100 % veggie nut but i do not eat any meat and have not since i was a child but I would never force it on someone else and even never forced it on my 2 sons ,they love veggies but are meat eaters .I am not that much a nut and sure not 100% right or even close to that i just know what works for me .I don't think a pond should cost hundreds of dollars or thousands of dollars you should have a budget in mind and keep it there and if later you want to change something you can .Just make sure you pick the right fish and the right amount of fish and make the size of the pond more important because rebuilding it bigger always ends up happening and ends up costing you more .So go as big as you feel comfortable enough to handle and try to at least get 2 pumps as there you never know always happens and then you are going nuts trying to find a pump .You end up spending more than what you want to and not getting what you want when it is an emergency .

 

[crsublette]

Homosapiens are omnivores for a good reason. Even true vegans have to get their special proteins, amino acids, and special enzymes, that is only found in meat, from sources outside of vegetables. There are vegetables with these nutrients except they are very low volumes so you would have to eat tremendous volume of the particular vegetable due to absorption and other issues. So, there are supplements that religiously true vegans take to stay healthy since it mostly depends on our liver chemistry and everyone's chemistry is different. If you want to become a true vegan, then ya really need to talk to your nutritionist about supplementals for vegans and they'll run a few tests on ya to see what your body chemistry actually needs; otherwise, you run the risk of all sorts of health problems that an omnivore will never experience.

We definitely do not need to eat anywhere near as much meat as we think, but this is not the same to say we should eat absolutely zero meat. Sorry, that whole "meat is absolutely never applicable to humans and not natural for humans to eat" nonesense is kind of one of my pet peeves that has grabbed my attention since I am one of the guys whose purpose is to grow your food.

All the right stuff for fish could be in the dog food. Still sounds a bit odd since it is a food for a different species.

 

[waynefrcan]

Hey fella, don't go knocking the Hatter, I bet she has a better history then you on fish loss. She hasn't lost a koi in 20 years.

 

[crsublette]

Heh, not knocking. Just saying what probably some folk are thinking. Unfortunate it came across to be insenstive to ya wayne.

I also don't do as some people do that is going around feeding animals food prepared for humans, which can lead animals to rot gut, but my mom says her animals just loves the stuff yet animals will be quick to drink anti-freeze as well. To each their own.

 

[waynefrcan]

Many wonderful and different ways to ponding from the folks here. As long as the fish live, I don't care what people do or don't do.

 

[callingcolleen1]

I am a big meat eater, love to eat animals, sounds weird when stated that way, but thats the way of life for many things in this planet. It's eat or be eaten! I look at it this way, all predatory carnivores that walk planet earth, their eyes are on the front of their head, weather slanted or round, like a cat, dog, wolf, panther or owl, et.... that way they can see to STALK their prey, and all herbavores, their eyes are on the side of their head, to see us coming!!! If I was meant to eat nothing but plants, my eyes would be on the side of my head! Ha ha ha. Sorry Sissy, Charles got me started!!

Anyway, about that salt thing... the thing is, adding salt may be good for some, but bad for others. Water in every town is different.
I tried salt many many years ago when young, and found it to be bad for me. Never understood why for a long time, till I got older and wiser. Water here in Medicine Hat is very hard, has lots of minerals, and naturally occurring salt. When it rains, the rain water trickles over our land, and picks up salt. Medicine Hat used to be part of a dead sea here at one time, many millions of years ago. Medicine Hat is below sea level. If you drive a short distance up the 41 highway, you will see dried salt in lower level areas, where the water once pooled and then dried into large areas of white salt. Medicine Hat used to be sea, the same sea that stretched all the way to Salt Lake city, hence the large amount of naturally occurring salt.

Water is so very different all over the country, and tastes so different from city to city. Water is the biggest element in your pond, so understanding your water is necessary to successfully running your pond. If you live where there is lots of rain, the rain will lower the PH and change your water chemistry. If your household water is from a fresh lake, well, or river, its all so different. Test your tap water see what you have to work with first, that is my advise.

 

[MitchM]

I've been keeping aquariums for almost 40 years, salt water for the last 13.
Salinity is serious business when it comes to fish keeping, and something we can alter effectively to control diseases and parasites. Invertebrates (parasites) and bacteria are much more suseptible to changes in salt concentration than vertebrates (fish) are. Just like adding salt to fresh water systems can effectively eliminate unwanted parasites and diseases, reducing the salinity of a salt water fish's environment will eliminate unwanted marine pests.
As the salinity changes, invertebrates are unable to adapt and will either take in more water to equalize to their environment, which will cause their membrane structure to burst, or will expel water to a level that prevents their life functions from operating properly. Vertebrates can withstand gradual changes in salinity and survive for a longer period of time, but unnatural salinity levels still causes stress on their internal organs long term because that is not the environment that whatever particular species we're dealing with evolved into.
I think I saw a salt concentration mentioned here of about 0.3% used to help keep koi healthy. Natural sea water is around 3.5%, about 10 times stronger.
I think the single best way to help fish live longer is to as much as possible, reduce their stress level. That includes not overcrowding, feeding a healthy diet, maintaining high water quality by learning about and replicating their natural environment.
I've read about the crystal clear water that people that "show" koi like, but I've also read where koi do best for breeding in muddy water - so which are koi actually happier in?
I hope I'm not stepping on any toes, as I know we all want what's best for our fish, but just like us humans, they do better with less stress.

 

[Dave 54]

Mitch many thanx for your brilliant in depth explanation about salt and fresh water fish you put it quite elequently and in easy to understand way it needed coming from an Aquarist .
As to koi and mud ponds they are designed for grubbing about the bottom of the pond which if a mud pond churns up the mud so I'd say mudponds its only the koi keeper who wants crystal clear water.
This is why koi are described as pest in NewZealand and Australia they get into systems that have fish that need clear water and cause the sysyem to muddy up killing the natural fish to that system .
In New Zealand they are actively hunted down and slaughteredby bow and arrow or air rifle.
Australia is actually thinking of introducing KHV to rid themselves of carp ( a bit short sighted as they have the only KHV jfree koi in the world which would be a good marketing point should they ever allow koi to be exported which they wont.

rgrds

Dave

 

[sissy]

T everyone his own taste and way of doing things .I have to take suppliments and always have .Doctor watches that stuff closely .Funny when i moved here and got new doctor and gave him my MEDICAL history and the look on his face was priceless ,I guess i am in real meat country I guess just like ponds you find what works and stay with it .I would love a bog but to much work for me and have to settle for my plant filters .Thanks to colleen at least i know more grasses really suck up the yuck .Made me into a rhymer too

 

[MitchM]

Thank you, Dave, for the kind words.
Do you know where koi are originally from?

 

[Dave 54]

Mitch if I remember my koi history correctly the common Carp (Cyprinus Carpio) orignated in Iran of all places and was found to be a good eating fish. Eventually spreading out to the UK and western Europe Japan and China but be aware Mitch the word koi covers a wide variety of fish including the 6ft Chinese big headed koi of which I have seen one in a video ( it was amazing all the koi in the pond with it were Jumbo koi ) and this thing cruised under them like a nuclear submarine it was huge. It made all those Jumbos look small , I'll see if I can dig it out so we can all watch this amazing fish The Mirror Carp a mutant of the common Carp was presented to the Japanese by Germany and became after cross breeding the doitsu The Butterfly koi is a cross breed between a koi and Indonesian river carp though America recognises this as a breed of koi and involve them at koi shows we brits are purists and wont recognise them as koi ( however they are finding their way into many ponds in the UK so theres hope for us all yet lol rgrds Dave

 

[MitchM]

Interesting, thanks.
I'm not saying I'm for or against salting koi ponds, but like with keeping corals, you can have healthier specimens if you can simulate the environment where they came from.

 

[Dave 54]

Mitch I'm not totally agaist salting koi but only for treatment if that is required in the pond per say then you have to remember that the salt must be removed by waterchanges

rgrds

Dave

 

[crsublette]

I've read about the crystal clear water that people that "show" koi like, but I've also read where koi do best for breeding in muddy water - so which are koi actually happier in?

I think 5 acre mud ponds are just easier to maintain rather than 5 acre concrete or liner ponds. I have read the japanese also severely nuke the mud ponds, prior to filling them, with chemicals to rid of any lingering pathogens and nasty critters. Also, they have anywhere from 2,000~5,000 gallons per koi. I'm told the koi protected from the sun's UV help and the koi growth also eat the mud for extra minerals. The nishikigoi grow out mud ponds are extremely generous with food as well. Do google about "koi ikeage"; pretty interesting as well.

Do you know where koi are originally from?

Some interesting stuff.
Want to know the origins of your Koi?? Check out Nishikigoi
Ever wonder the origins of butterfly koi??

 

[MitchM]

Thanks Charles.