Unknown Koi disease

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I need help! I've looked at lots of horrible pictures on lots of websites and read the books I have, but I can't seem to nail down the problem I have with this fish.

Water: I'm in coastal Southern California and we have had a warm spell, so water has been in the 70-78F most of the last few weeks. Its an outdoor Koi only pond of 1,500-1,800 gallons with 7 fish.

Symptoms: She's a 2.5 year old. First noticed nodules on the leading edge of the dorsal fin about 4-5 weeks ago and then some on other fins, particularly the tail. The base of the pectoral fins are pink and look sore/slightly swollen. The dorsal fin did split for a while in one spot, but healed up again. Some of the fins are thinned at the edges and ragged. I noticed the odd nodule on her body too. Starting to become a little off her food.

No obvious issues with any other fish.

Thank you for any helpful advice you may be able to give.

Mick
 

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Had this bee in winter I woudl have said it was koi pox but give your temperature readings it is obviously not it doesnt fit any of the viruses or Parasites that weve seen but it does look like what happened to one of our koi some years ago.
That turned out to be an auto immune system response where the immune system suddenly turns on the koi.
It sadly got so bad that we had to put it to painlessly to sleep using the MS222 fish anesthetic.
The response may well have been caused by the hgh water temperatures you have had ,

rgrds

Dave .
 
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I'm not sure I'd rule out that Koi pox yet Dave. He said they have had a warm spell, indicating to me that the water temperature may have been much colder recently which might have caused it to bloom. With the water warmer, it might be clearing a bit now. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the water cools off again.

Mick: Here's a link that describes it more: http://www.ponddoc.com/koihospital/Diagnostic/Other/CarpPox.htm

Craig
 
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70 -78 f is around 25c which is the messurment I work in , that is quite warm again this rules out Koi pox as it doesnt come into being until the water is down by the 8-9c or lower.
25c should have seen the koi pox off as it disapears as the temperature rises .
We'll have to wait and see what happens to this koi if this is an auto immune respnse it can only become worse .
Tnkring have you netted this koi yet?
If so what do these lumps feel like are they hard or waxy ?

rgrds

Dave
 
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I'm not sure I'd rule out that Koi pox yet Dave. He said they have had a warm spell, indicating to me that the water temperature may have been much colder recently which might have caused it to bloom. With the water warmer, it might be clearing a bit now. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the water cools off again.

Mick: Here's a link that describes it more: http://www.ponddoc.c...her/CarpPox.htm

Craig

Quite simple Craig if its koi pox then we'll see a few more of them , remember it is in the fish to cure itself its just a waiting game to see just what happens.
Sadly if this is an Auto immune response the fish can only go down hill as the immune system is shot .

rgrds

Dave
 
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Netted fish. The lumps are hard. They also looked like they had blood capillaries in them because there was a bit of bleeding during the thrashing around.

Just incase there was some local ailment I took the photos to the local koi retailer and she immediately said koi pox. I must say I'm not convinced, but the fish is still alive and eating.

I'll post more photos as soon as I have them off the camera.

Mick
 
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Carp pox isn't normally fatal, so being alive and eating wouldn't rule out pox. Doesn't look like pox but a picture isn't the same as in person. Just by the picture I'd guess tumors, but you say these appeared fast?

Easiest thing is probably to just treat for pox and see if it gets better since results should be fairly fast. After that you could treat for bacterial to see if that is the cause.
 
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Here's an interesting article on your issue. It might be worth trying the treatment for cold-water ich as described and then seeing if the bumps return when the water temp is lowered again. If cold-water ich, they shouldn't reappear. If koi pox, they will. There is no treatment for koi pox except keeping the water temp above 80 to suppress the outbreak.

Craig
 
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The water temperature at 25c or rougthly 77.f rules out koi pox which disapates at a much lower temperature than that of 80.f
I would say 80.f works out in celcius is 30c, koi pox is gone by around about 17c - 63f.
Papillomas a type of tumour disapates at again roughly the same as koi pox so if it doesnt clear up we can rule out that one too.....
"Papillomas would have been my second choice".
Which brings us to an Auto immune responce or failure which can and does happen to any koi.
Weve seen it once before in one of our own koi which very sadly we had to put to sleep.because of this failure This was at request of the koi health official that covers the south west of the uk after taking us through and looking into all the options prior to euthanizing the koi as seen above .
rgrds

Dave
 
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The treatment for pox is 80F water to try and increase the the fish's immune system. The pox will normally be reduced. So if you see a reduction you have a better diagnosis, that's all. Simple enough test.
 
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An increase of only 10c is sufficient for koi pox raising the temperature 1c daily, however you may need to increase the water to 25c which in normal cases isnt needed.
I've only ever come across one koi like that in our 26 years koi keeping belonging to a fish keeper I know named Matt Avery who worked in the fish trade and couldnt clear his matsuba at lower temperatures

rgds

Dave
 
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Its a year later and his condition has continued to get steadily worse. The fins have steadily thinned and are now very jagged along the edges and the lumps have increased a little. Still no signs on any other fish.

Here are some close ups I took about 9 months ago.
 

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Tinkering by now you should have looked up Saprolegnia which is a fungus , however I seriously doubt its that,
wb says tumours as do I this is as tumours with a redish pink apperance, it says paplloma however I think it may be an auto immune response.
These may need to be removed surgically by a vet or a koi specialist.
Once removed the area from where they came should be treated with malachite green and propolis.
Like Carp pox they do respond to temperature however this time you may need to increase the water temperature to aout 25.c
In extreme cases where lots of these tumours have been profesionally removed be aware a secondary infection could occur if this is the case then the vet or koi profesional should be contacted and they treat for this infection.
I hope this helps your quest to rid your koi of these lumps, by the way do I have your permision to use these photo's sometime in the future ?
If as I suspect an auto immume response then leave be and see how things go on, if it then gets worse I'd think about euthanizing it.

rgrds

Dave
 

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