Young koi sluggish, gasping for air or trying to escape?

[dinm]

Yesterday I added 4 koi to the pond, these are young koi, today I go to the pond, I see one young one at the edge of the pond, to me I thought he was death but I splash the water a bit and there he runs off, another one I thought was dead was at the bottom, I grab him with the net, nope still alive so I let him go. They seem to be very sluggish for some reason, it is because they are not used to this kind of environment, or water quality? Because I have already 3 koi which are larger than them, and around 5-6 goldfish, the previously placed Koi & Goldfish show no signs of lethargy or being immobile, but these guys it's like they're depressed, they constantly go to the edge of the pond, trying to escape or something else.

But if it is a water quality issue how come the other Koi/Goldfish are active and running around like crazy? Or is it just that it takes time for them to get used to it? Not really sure, I have one of those submersible pumps which aerates it, but I am not sure that aeration is the problem?

 

[Jhn]

Have you tested your water quality?

Yes your resident fish may be adapted to the water quality (or lack there of) of the pond and your new fish may not be. Poor water quality unless it is really bad isn’t an acute stressor, it is chronic and shows up slowly in various minor ways. Adding new fish that aren’t use to it may cause problems or they may be able to overcome it, depends on the health of the new additions. If these new additions weren’t in the best shape to begin with then stressing them (bagging them up and moving them to a new environment) is going to cause problems even if your water quality is up to snuff.

How did you acclimate them?

 

[Lisak1]

All good questions from @Jhn .

Also - how big is your pond? What kind of filtration are you running? Do you test your water? If so, what kind of test do you use? What are the readings?

 

[dinm]

Have you tested your water quality?

Yes your resident fish may be adapted to the water quality (or lack there of) of the pond and your new fish may not be. Poor water quality unless it is really bad isn’t an acute stressor, it is chronic and shows up slowly in various minor ways. Adding new fish that aren’t use to it may cause problems or they may be able to overcome it, depends on the health of the new additions. If these new additions weren’t in the best shape to begin with then stressing them (bagging them up and moving them to a new environment) is going to cause problems even if your water quality is up to snuff.

How did you acclimate them?

Didn't do any testing, no real acclimation either, I just put them in. However, the three are doing fine or so it seems to me, they're going around the pond like other fish, doesn't seem like they're stressed and it seems they are getting used to it, and they are not staying in one place. The 4th one though is laying on the bottom, although he's not dead, this one seems to be either the weakest, or he's just getting used to it or is very stressed.

All good questions from @Jhn .

Also - how big is your pond? What kind of filtration are you running? Do you test your water? If so, what kind of test do you use? What are the readings?

Pond is probably around 5000L, the filtration probably is not the greatest and I've been thinking about changing it to an external filter (it is one of these submersible pumps that have those sponge filters in them). The water is crystal clear at all times though, so I don't know whether that could be an issue. I have never tested the water, cause I haven't had any issues.

 

[Mgessert]

If you don’t test, you won’t be able to determine the cause.

 

[j.w]

So 5000 L converts to a bit over 1300 gals which is going to be way to small for all those koi once they really start to grow. I suppose if you had a super amazing filter it might work but perhaps not? Better test your water. API makes some good ones: https://www.amazon.com/API-POND-MAS...x=pond+water+testing+kits,aps,166&sr=8-5&th=1

 

[dinm]

So 5000 L converts to a bit over 1300 gals which is going to be way to small for all those koi once they really start to grow. I suppose if you had a super amazing filter it might work but perhaps not? Better test your water. API makes some good ones: https://www.amazon.com/API-POND-MASTER-Water-500-Test/dp/B0002DJNN0/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3VAQ4J4ROKOLD&keywords=pond+water+testing+kits&qid=1680968987&sprefix=pond+water+testing+kits,aps,166&sr=8-5&th=1

Well, I'm talking about now and I doubt that these young koi could overwhelm filtration. When they grew enough, then they'd be given to someone else who wants them (and there are plenty people who would for free, in my area). My intention is not overcrowding, and fish aren't why I have a pond, but they are a nice addition. If the filtration was not sufficient for the existing fish, would that not show in the clarity of the water, or in fish themselves? Surely it would, but I have not the experience in this kind of thing. Goldfish that I have seem quite hardy, and the 3 Koi were placed some time in September last year all survived, even the winter.

The one that could not swim has now passed, not sure what happened there, whether it was sick before I put it in or it just got shocked. I had taken it in a few hours ago and put it into a fish bowl, thinking that perhaps it could be rejuvenated but nope, it was alive for a few hours until it seemed to finally give in, and it could not swim for some reason, it was sort of flipped, and it would at times swim but it seemed too far gone. Oh well, I hope the rest do fine, but I have no intention of bringing anymore new koi to the pond, probably for the better.

I suppose the water was too hardy compared to the person where I bought it from, I'll see what I can do to do a water test soon, I appreciate the advice.

 

[j.w]

@dinm If you don't test you will not know if your water is off kilter. Perhaps it was just a big shock to the new fish going into different water, either quality or temperature. I do not know. I am one that keeps any new fish separate for awhile from my pond. I have a bathtub pond that I can put them in to make sure they are well enough to go in w/my old fish. Not everyone does this but I like to. I float them in the bag of water they came in for awhile in the bathtub pond and then allow some of the water to seep into the bag. I do that off and on for awhile and then let them go in the tub. Same routine for when I put them in the big pond w/my old fish.

 

[GBBUDD]

I am not a freak in testing my waters but that is due to testing the water in the beginning and seeing where and what level they were at. The fish tell me now when something is off. The key to fish keeping is observations. When the fish jump out of the water it may look cool but it usually says the water is to acidic and it burns their gills and they are trying to get away from it or the similar but due to parasites.
Do your fish swim around and look like they are having fun and nibbling at the rocks or do they just kinda sit there and move slowly even when the waters are 70 degrees.

Aclimating fresh water fish is a must more than a couple degree difference and you can kill or shock them. As mentioned most fatal mistakes can take several days to show somethings wrong and at that point it's usually too late

 

[dinm]

I am not a freak in testing my waters but that is due to testing the water in the beginning and seeing where and what level they were at. The fish tell me now when something is off. The key to fish keeping is observations. When the fish jump out of the water it may look cool but it usually says the water is to acidic and it burns their gills and they are trying to get away from it or the similar but due to parasites.
Do your fish swim around and look like they are having fun and nibbling at the rocks or do they just kinda sit there and move slowly even when the waters are 70 degrees.

Aclimating fresh water fish is a must more than a couple degree difference and you can kill or shock them. As mentioned most fatal mistakes can take several days to show somethings wrong and at that point it's usually too late

So today is almost 2 days since I put the new fish in. The rest of the added fish are doing pretty well, they aren't skittish at all, I haven't seen any signs of sluggish behavior anymore of these 3 new koi that I added, it looks like they're doing well, for now.

But no, they're not sluggish at all. It seems they have acclimated, which is fortunate.

 

[j.w]

I must admit too that I tested my water years ago when I first started out. Now I am not doing it anymore. I do still do the quarantine tub deal and the float the bag, add water slowly stuff if I add new fish.

 

[dinm]

Just an update, thought it may help someone, haven't done a test yet or any treatments, however the other 3 koi have adapted and are pretty playful. Not scared of humans, or skittish. Perhaps not so good if there's a cat lurking around, but I like that they aren't scared of me approaching them. Very active, no signs of being sluggish.

 

[dinm]

8 days later, all the newly added ones are gone it seems. Two I found at the bottom in the morning, the third one I can't see at all, he may be still alive but probably not since the two of them died.

Unsure what was the cause, since they didn't show any signs of being sluggish after that last post I made. Well, I'm not getting anymore Koi is what I've taken away from this, maybe I'll get Goldfish in the future since they are as hard as rocks. I had even applied a water conditioner to remove all the heavy minerals from the water, and which adds some beneficial minerals, specifically advertised for Koi and other fish, but this was 3-4 days ago, and so I don't think it could be the reason.

 

[Lisak1]

Sorry to hear this - always sad to lose fish.

I think you're on the right track. Goldfish are much more suited to your size of pond.

 

[dinm]

Sorry to hear this - always sad to lose fish.

I think you're on the right track. Goldfish are much more suited to your size of pond.

I do still have 3 Koi in there that were put in August last year, they survived the winter, and around 6-7 Goldfish. The Koi and Goldfish are gonna grow I think quite a bit as we get into warmer temperatures as I didn't feed them at all since October until about a few days ago, so that'll be interesting to see. Not sure if I need to add an aerator, I assume it may help prevent some algae formation and give the fish more oxygen.