Hello to all. I am a brand new member to this forum and am hoping someone can shed some light on a very puzzling recent event. My husband and I went to work on Friday and our koi looked like they always did. One of our young 6"(ish) koi was his usual bright orange and white self. When I came home from work he was milky white and a light salmony orange. He was swimming around and eating and acting otherwise normal. Does anyone have an explanation? I have asked this question of non koi experts and people have said it could be stress (we had a big storm with crazy strong winds) or heat (our temps were in the 90s for 3 or 4 days straight) someone said it could be a bacteria although we just treated the pond for parasites about 3 weeks ago. I'm at a loss. I would love advice from the experts. Thank you in advance for helping a garden pond newbie!
Young koi dramatically changed color in less than 24 hours
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Mmathis
TurtleMommy
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Welcome to the forum! We do have some koi experts here who will hopefully be able to help you.
fishin4cars
True friends just call me Larkin
Welcome aboard, It happens, it's all part of learning Koi and the hobby. Some types Like Beni Kumonryu and Kumonryu are actually known for changing like this. Heat, water quality, stress, and just the genetics of the fish themselves can all be a part in what happened. My biggest concern is that it was originally orange and milky white and changed in less than 24 hours. In most cases beni (Red or Orange) shouldn't change that fast. Not to say it won't but in most cases the red/orange usually fades down over several weeks or months. I would first double check all the water parameters and make sure nothing is out of line, If everything is ok with the water itself, check the temps and PH in the morning and night and record the readings, if either are moving very much from day to night that could have been what triggered this. In most cases Black (Sumi) and KI (yellow) are two of the most unstable colors and they are very well known for changing drastically over time. White (Shiro) is probably one of the most stable colors and Red/orange (Beni) is a color many look at closely for thickness in higher quality koi to try and pick a fish the will improve over time not fade away. This is a part of the hobby that take looking at lots of fish including high quality and lots of reading, learning seeing, and experience to Master.
I would take precautions and make sure it's not a problem but my bet it's probably a fish that it was going to happen to no matter what you did and it probably won't go back to what it was. But in most cases it's still completely healthy and can still live out a long full life.
BTW, it even happens to those of us that have experience and know what to look for as far as quality too. I personally have two fish that this is happening to right now. Mine aren't changing that quick by any means, but they are both turning plain blah white.
I would take precautions and make sure it's not a problem but my bet it's probably a fish that it was going to happen to no matter what you did and it probably won't go back to what it was. But in most cases it's still completely healthy and can still live out a long full life.
BTW, it even happens to those of us that have experience and know what to look for as far as quality too. I personally have two fish that this is happening to right now. Mine aren't changing that quick by any means, but they are both turning plain blah white.
Thank you, fishin4cars. I really appreciate the guidance. We have not been testing temps or ph levels and we know we need to. We will buy a kit and get in the habit of recording the details. We are very good about treating the pond with Aqua Fix, Muck Buster and Purify Dry (as needed). Everything "looks fine" but we'll start getting a little more scientific. Appreciate the advice!
And thanks for welcoming me to the forum, TurtleMommy.
And thanks for welcoming me to the forum, TurtleMommy.
Welcome to the group, and glad you posted this, as I just had something similar happen ...
Larkin ... About a week or so ago, what was left (unsold) of the babies in the 600 gallon basement pond were moved outside. Test results between the two ponds are nearly identical, except for temp and KH ... Ammonia, nitrite are at zero. Nitrates are barely measurable, but not enough color change off of zero to give a number.
The 600 ... temp is about 72-74, KH ranges 4-5 drops ...
Outside ... temp is 80-82. KH has been steady at 7 drops.
I still have 5 fish that looked like this one, including this one ... I've been calling this group Matsuba crosses. Three have the Doitsu scales down their backs, with a row of large scales on the lateral lines ... The other two have normal scales.
They still looked like this when we moved them outside, just bigger (7-9" range). Over the last few days, we have noticed that the three with doitsu scales turned BLUE.
This is a DIFFERENT fish that I have had for some time when he was little (about 5" here) ... This is Mr P.
They now look like Mr P did, but brighter blue. (Mr P turned brighter too as he got bigger.)
If you look again at the baby in the first picture, I can still find him (or her) as an individual ... if you look at his dorsal fin, you will see two orange spots where the fin meets the body ... those two spots are still there, but otherwise, the orange is gone from the face, and looks like Mr P.
Again, the 2 babies that originally looked the same, but have normal scales have not changed color, or at least not yet ... As soon as I get the chance, will post pictures of the same baby above so you can see the before and after pics side by side. I am stumped LOL. I have seen yellow fish go orange, and white areas turn black as they have grown, but not black and orange to blue and white ...
Larkin ... About a week or so ago, what was left (unsold) of the babies in the 600 gallon basement pond were moved outside. Test results between the two ponds are nearly identical, except for temp and KH ... Ammonia, nitrite are at zero. Nitrates are barely measurable, but not enough color change off of zero to give a number.
The 600 ... temp is about 72-74, KH ranges 4-5 drops ...
Outside ... temp is 80-82. KH has been steady at 7 drops.
I still have 5 fish that looked like this one, including this one ... I've been calling this group Matsuba crosses. Three have the Doitsu scales down their backs, with a row of large scales on the lateral lines ... The other two have normal scales.
They still looked like this when we moved them outside, just bigger (7-9" range). Over the last few days, we have noticed that the three with doitsu scales turned BLUE.
This is a DIFFERENT fish that I have had for some time when he was little (about 5" here) ... This is Mr P.
They now look like Mr P did, but brighter blue. (Mr P turned brighter too as he got bigger.)
If you look again at the baby in the first picture, I can still find him (or her) as an individual ... if you look at his dorsal fin, you will see two orange spots where the fin meets the body ... those two spots are still there, but otherwise, the orange is gone from the face, and looks like Mr P.
Again, the 2 babies that originally looked the same, but have normal scales have not changed color, or at least not yet ... As soon as I get the chance, will post pictures of the same baby above so you can see the before and after pics side by side. I am stumped LOL. I have seen yellow fish go orange, and white areas turn black as they have grown, but not black and orange to blue and white ...
Mmathis
TurtleMommy
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I only have goldfish, and even with them, I find it fascinating how their colors will change over time. I am watching one that was a fry from last year (I guess...) that stayed black forever. It's now starting to fade out the black into orange. It looks like a different fish every time I see it.
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I know this is slightly off-topic, but what is the usual transformation for Shubukins? No, think I'll start another thread on that -- no hijacking kdogsid's thread!
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I know this is slightly off-topic, but what is the usual transformation for Shubukins? No, think I'll start another thread on that -- no hijacking kdogsid's thread!
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Record everything you do to your koi from water perameters to maintenance maintenance to health and before long yo'll build up a working recrd of your pond, its water the filters,and most imporatantly treatments log, you'll find that after a year your knowledge on health matters etc will start to pay dvidends to you (I kid you not).
I have over 27 years of records to look back into to see how this was done, or how that was treated pretty soon there will a fountain of knowledge to look back into reading books on your subject also helps:-
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/top...-with-reviews-of-each-book/?hl=health+library
rgrds
Dave
Fascinating stuff. Thank you everyone. Dave, I am inspired by your record keeping discipline. And thanks for the link to your library. As much as we all have access to the Internet, real books are always good to have around. I will order a couple to keep as handy reference guides.
Start of with say somethng like the interpet manual of koi health to give you a break into the health side of things dont be afraid of it its not advanced koi keeping level whih quite a few of our books are however I still use it as my bible and the Interpet mannual of Fish health our first ever book , though not specifically for koi it gives you a good grounding i the hobby in general.kdogsid said:
As you progress obviously te books get more advanced .
I agree with you there is nothing like a good book over the internet books win hands down everytime for us.
These reveiws were brought about by the former head of the AKCA Spike Cover whom I've known to talk to quite a few years now and the reveiws will explain to you our thoughts on them
rgrds
Dave