A few questions about pond animals and plants

[max384]

Addy, you got your post in right before mine! The numbers on the first chart are multipliers. You find your multiplier by using your pH and temp values and then multiply the number that you find with your measured ammonia levels in ppm. The second chart (that I found later) is much easier. There is a separate chart for each ammonia reading. So, the picture of the chart I posted is only for 2.0ppm readings. I should have made that clearer in my post. (hopefully this is more clear! :bouncycig: ). I'm certainly no expert in pond care. However, I do have a biology degree with a chemistry minor, and the science behind it makes sense to me (I don't have a full picture of how ammonium affects fish though, so I have to just make the ASSumption that it isn't too bad for them). It was also supported by several pond care websites, so I feel pretty good about it. However, I'm certainly open to dissenting views if anyone knows any different. I guess it's a bit of a moot point right now, unless the ammonia values shoot up again.

Looks like I'm definitely getting a heater for the winter. I wish I had made it deeper. Too late now. If I don't hate this one and ever decide to build a new one, I'll make sure to dig it plenty deep.

Thanks for all the help. I'll probably post plenty of new threads over the coming days/weeks/months with new problems/questions.

Anyhow, I've gotta get back to studying. I've spent WAY too much time working on the pond and searching the internet.

 

[fishin4cars]

Good news. I checked the water again this morning and the ammonia values look much better. Here are the numbers:
nitrate: 0
nitrite: 0
Hardness (GH): 75ppm
Chlorine: 0
Alkalinity (KH): 80
pH: 7.2
Ammonia: between 0 and 25ppm

I hadn't thought about it last night, but I had added the water lillies and repotted all the other plants I already had in there last night a few hours before I checked the water. When I repotted the plants, I used a once-a-year fertilizer in each pot, as per the instructions from the worker at the pond/garden store. I wonder if that caused a spike in ammonia levels?

It should be noted also that two of the fish died. Both of them died within hours of putting them into the pond. One had this white stuff on the side of his face. It didn't look like ich at all, it almost looked like it was his flesh sloughing off. The other looked outwardly healthy. I put the bag in the water and left it for about an hour to acclimatize them and then opened the bag and let them all swim out on their own. I wasn't, and still am not, too worried since they were just feeder goldfish. In prior experience with aquariums, I've always had a few feeder fish die when I buy some. What do you guys think? Should I treat with ich treatment just in case, even though it doesn't look like it to me in my not-professional opinion?

Please, Do not treat with any medication unless you know for certain what your treating for, treating with meds in the pond is just going to cause more problems in most cases. I would recommend if at all possible do any medicating you can in a smaller holding tank. It's a new pond, You don't want to make it more unstable right now.
The fert. you used should have caused anything with ammonia, if anything it's going to throw the Nitrite and nitrate readings off as your adding nitrogen in with fert.
I have to say this, know you and everyone else has probably heard it but I am going to post anyway. I always recommend waiting at least a 48 hours and a week or two is even better before adding fish. Water needs to stabilize, it will form a slime coating on everything, walls of the liner, rocks pots, everything. this is where a good layer of bacteria will grow. even adding a pre-running filter will only help minimally. If you look at ShwDwn's thread on his pond build you will notice that he used his filter prior to pond installation too. however he did it first in a small pond for holding the fish, the filter had plenty of bacteria and only a small pond for all the slime to form and start growing bacteria, Then he added the second part and was able to have it up and running with fish right away. One of the main reasons was he already had a fully established bacteria bed working now. I'm not sure if you used a bacteria supplement to kick start your pond, if not I would.
That chart is very good information to have. right now it is best to allow that ammonia to do what is natural, that is food for the bacteria to start and grow with, adding a bacteria supplement will give your pond a really good kick start and the ammonia that is present should really help overall as it will form a stronger bacteria bed once the pond has completely cycled and stabilized.

 

[koidaddy]

I made the same mistake. I dug a hole in the yard and then did some research. :bouncycig: One of the first things I noticed over and over was you need to research this for a year before you even grab a shovel. After my first year of trial and error I understand what they were saying. Heck im still learning and im going on 5 years now.

 

[sissy]

pond are an endless diversion from the world and make you forget everything else .The satisfaction in something that works and the disapointment in something that doesn't work but still makes you feel good giving it a try .Always learning 6 years and I'll never get it right

 

[fishin4cars]

LOL, 15 years of ponding and 30 years of fish keeping and I have learned more in the last several months (since I joined the forum) than most of those years combined! I have to say, you read enough old posts on this forum and you can't help but learn something new every day.

 

[max384]

Please, Do not treat with any medication unless you know for certain what your treating for, treating with meds in the pond is just going to cause more problems in most cases. I would recommend if at all possible do any medicating you can in a smaller holding tank. It's a new pond, You don't want to make it more unstable right now.
The fert. you used should have caused anything with ammonia, if anything it's going to throw the Nitrite and nitrate readings off as your adding nitrogen in with fert.
I have to say this, know you and everyone else has probably heard it but I am going to post anyway. I always recommend waiting at least a 48 hours and a week or two is even better before adding fish. Water needs to stabilize, it will form a slime coating on everything, walls of the liner, rocks pots, everything. this is where a good layer of bacteria will grow. even adding a pre-running filter will only help minimally. If you look at ShwDwn's thread on his pond build you will notice that he used his filter prior to pond installation too. however he did it first in a small pond for holding the fish, the filter had plenty of bacteria and only a small pond for all the slime to form and start growing bacteria, Then he added the second part and was able to have it up and running with fish right away. One of the main reasons was he already had a fully established bacteria bed working now. I'm not sure if you used a bacteria supplement to kick start your pond, if not I would.
That chart is very good information to have. right now it is best to allow that ammonia to do what is natural, that is food for the bacteria to start and grow with, adding a bacteria supplement will give your pond a really good kick start and the ammonia that is present should really help overall as it will form a stronger bacteria bed once the pond has completely cycled and stabilized.

I'll keep an eye on the fish to make sure they don't have a disease. It was only that one, and I'm not sure it was anything more than an injury. I did actually wait two days before adding the fish after filling and dechlorinating it. If I had to do it over again, I would have waited several weeks. I think I'll go ahead and get a bacteria supplement. Thanks for the help.


I'm definitely learning as I'm going. This forum is helping immensely.

 

[max384]

Well, I came home and noticed several of my other fish have this white stuff on them. It looks like fungal fin rot, as in this picture:

However, it's not isolated to the fins; it's also on the body as well. I tried to take pictures of it, but the fish kept swimming around, and most were near the bottom of the pond. I got three okay pictures. Maybe you guys can tell what it is. I'm leaning toward the fin rot.

I'm also making a new thread in the appropriate section of the forum with these pictures.

 

[fishin4cars]

that is a fungal infection, probably brought on by the high ammonia. have you added salt? Rock salt, aquarium salt, any but Iodized table salt, Do not add that! I would go 1 1/4 cup per hundred gallons, next get a bacteria supplement ASAP. the high ammonia will help the bacteria get a good strong hold, Wouldn't hurt to get something to reduce ammonia as well if you can find something for your size pond. Now for treating the fish, If they are eating, anti fungal food would be my first choice for treatment, second choice would be isolation and a good anti fungal medication designed for fin and mouth rot and or body fungus. That would be a lot easier and far cheaper than trying to treat the whole pond. I would rather you not treat the pond if possible, You'll be doing probably more harm than good, Right now you need to keep the pond running as stable as you can. Adding medications will throw the hole filter system all out of whack and then your back to square one. $9 kiddy swimming pool, and a air stone or small fountain pump will work for treating the fish just be sure and keep an eye on ammonia in there too. but in the kiddy pool if it gets high water changes will reduce and help you while you medicate. I would recommend doing it to the pond too but in reality you really want it high so the bacteria can get a good strong growth and get your pond more stable faster.

 

[max384]

that is a fungal infection, probably brought on by the high ammonia. have you added salt? Rock salt, aquarium salt, any but Iodized table salt, Do not add that! I would go 1 1/4 cup per hundred gallons, next get a bacteria supplement ASAP. the high ammonia will help the bacteria get a good strong hold, Wouldn't hurt to get something to reduce ammonia as well if you can find something for your size pond. Now for treating the fish, If they are eating, anti fungal food would be my first choice for treatment, second choice would be isolation and a good anti fungal medication designed for fin and mouth rot and or body fungus. That would be a lot easier and far cheaper than trying to treat the whole pond. I would rather you not treat the pond if possible, You'll be doing probably more harm than good, Right now you need to keep the pond running as stable as you can. Adding medications will throw the hole filter system all out of whack and then your back to square one. $9 kiddy swimming pool, and a air stone or small fountain pump will work for treating the fish just be sure and keep an eye on ammonia in there too. but in the kiddy pool if it gets high water changes will reduce and help you while you medicate. I would recommend doing it to the pond too but in reality you really want it high so the bacteria can get a good strong growth and get your pond more stable faster.

I have not added salt to the pond. I have also not added bacteria. I am going to go to the store and see if they have any. I have not actually seen them eat yet. The problem with quarantining is that I can't find most of my fish. I assume they are hiding under rocks and such. I wonder how much good it will do to quarantine and treat some of the fish if others are still in the pond and I don't know about it?

 

[fishin4cars]

I have not added salt to the pond. I have also not added bacteria. I am going to go to the store and see if they have any. I have not actually seen them eat yet. The problem with quarantining is that I can't find most of my fish. I assume they are hiding under rocks and such. I wonder how much good it will do to quarantine and treat some of the fish if others are still in the pond and I don't know about it?

the fungus is in the pond, that's a given. Actually it's there pretty much regardless. It's the fishes slime coating that has been damaged and that's what causes the fungus to attack, simply speaking you have all kinds of micro-organisms on your skin, You don't get a infection until you get cut. basically the same thing. Your not quarantining at this point as you already had the fish in the pond, All your doing now is treating in a smaller container so you don't spend 1000 times as much money on medication. I've used melafix before, It works pretty good for me if you use it as the directions say. treating in a say 20 gallon aquarium, cost about $2-3 a treatment, not bad.now treat a pond of say 1000 gallons and the cost just jumped to $100-$150 worth of medication, also treating in a smaller container allows you easy acsess to remove any fish that don't make it which would cause more problems. In the pond, they may make it they may not. medicationg the pond won't fix the problem, but it can sure make it tough to get it settled down in the future.

BTW, since it's a new pond and feeder fish, IMO salt is the cheapest and best thing you can do for the fish in the pond right now. Won't hurt to add and surely could help and probably should be added if the fish did this or not.

 

[addy1]

Max384, don't feel too bad, I put feeders in my pond last year, new pond, it had cycled for over a month. But did not test for ph, our well is around 5ish, so long story short the fish died. This is my 6th pond you would think we would know all by now lol. Learning curve, never thought well water would be acidic.

btw things must be better just found out we are fish grandparents, saw some fry, never see the parents but saw some lil ones. about 1/4 inch or so

 

[j.w]

Congrats addy on the new little ones

 

[addy1]

Congrats addy on the new little ones

Natural stocking jw! Pond is low fish load so what lives lives. Must have been the white goldie I saw being chased by the gold one. Both had nice long fins so wait and see lol.

 

[sissy]

You could have more fish than you know about addy they are in hiding and in year or so you will have a fish frenzy

 

[max384]

Two more fish died. I've now lost 4 out of the 20 that I started with. However, the last two that died were ones that were already sick. I could only find one more sick fish. I took him out and put him in a tank. He was really slow and has a lot of fin rot. I bought Pimafix for treatment. I thought that's what you had recommended fishin4cars, however, I saw that it was Melafix. Though, Pimafix is advertised as a fungal treatment, so I used it as per the instructions. What are your opinions on Pimafix?

I tried to catch some of the other fish so that I could have a closer look them to see if they were sick. However, they were fast! So, I figure they must be doing at least okay if they're swimming so fast. Especially considering how slow the sick one is.

I also salted the pond, treated for the high ammonia levels, and added bacteria. I added enough salt to make a 0.07% water solution. I wanted a 0.1% solution, but since I wasn't sure if the rocks had contributed any salt, what the level of dissolved ions were, and since 400 gallons is only an estimate, I gave myself a bit of a buffer. I'd rather go too low than too high.

I just got done testing the pond water. Here's the results:

Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Hardness: 75
Chlorine: 0
Alkalinity: 40-80
pH: 6.8
Ammonia: 0