A few questions about pond animals and plants

[max384]

I just finished (mostly) building my pond today. I filled it with water on Sunday and put the water conditioner in then as well. Yesterday and today were spent filling it with rocks and such. I bought a pot of zebra grass and bamboo, six water hyacinths, two water lettuce plants, and eight bundles of anacharis. I plan on getting some lilly pads as well. My pond is about 400 gallons (about 9' x 4' with deep area of 24") with a small waterfall on one end.

1) The vegetation definitely looks pretty sparse at this point. How fast do these plants grow? Do you think I should buy more or will it get out of control later in the year if I buy more now?

2) I just bought 20 comet goldfish (the cheap feeders) and put them in today. I thought this would be a bunch, but after putting them into the pond, it doesn't seem like many at all. They are all small, maybe an inch or so long, and I know they will grow larger. Is this a good number for this size pond, or could I go with more?

3) I plan on ordering some Japanese Trapdoor snails; probably twenty of them. Can I order them now? Or should I wait until some algae has built up?

4) I would love to have a few frogs in my pond. I live in town, pretty far away from any natural water source, so I find it hard to imagine any will just make their way to my pond. I was thinking about grabbing some tadpoles out of a local water hole. Will they survive in the pond, or will the goldfish eat them? The pond has a PVC liner and rocks covering the liner. If an adult frog stays at my pond, will it survive the winter there or does it need some nearby mud for hibernating?

Thanks!

 

[addy1]

I just finished (mostly) building my pond today. I filled it with water on Sunday and put the water conditioner in then as well. Yesterday and today were spent filling it with rocks and such. I bought a pot of zebra grass and bamboo, six water hyacinths, two water lettuce plants, and eight bundles of anacharis. I plan on getting some lilly pads as well. My pond is about 400 gallons (about 9' x 4' with deep area of 24") with a small waterfall on one end.

1) The vegetation definitely looks pretty sparse at this point. How fast do these plants grow? Do you think I should buy more or will it get out of control later in the year if I buy more now?

Give it time it will fill in

2) I just bought 20 comet goldfish (the cheap feeders) and put them in today. I thought this would be a bunch, but after putting them into the pond, it doesn't seem like many at all. They are all small, maybe an inch or so long, and I know they will grow larger. Is this a good number for this size pond, or could I go with more?

Don't add anymore fish right now, let your pond cycle and they will grow. Keep a eye on your water tests

3) I plan on ordering some Japanese Trapdoor snails; probably twenty of them. Can I order them now? Or should I wait until some algae has built up?

Wait until there is some food for them to eat

4) I would love to have a few frogs in my pond. I live in town, pretty far away from any natural water source, so I find it hard to imagine any will just make their way to my pond. I was thinking about grabbing some tadpoles out of a local water hole. Will they survive in the pond, or will the goldfish eat them? The pond has a PVC liner and rocks covering the liner. If an adult frog stays at my pond, will it survive the winter there or does it need some nearby mud for hibernating?

With tabpoles give it a try, I would assume mine hibernate out of the pond, it is a liner, they can't get to the mud.

Thanks!

good luck too

 

[max384]

Thanks for the advice.

Boy, I wish I had done research instead of just jumping into this head first. Over the weekend, I impulsively decided I wanted to build a pond. I had never even thought of doing so before. I then went to Home Depot and bought a liner, pump, filter, dechlorinator, and hose. I already knew how to dig a hole and collect rocks, so what did I need to read up on??? :lol:

I had never heard of a pond cycle until you mentioned it here. I just did a search and read up on it and have a basic idea. I wish I had waited a bit longer to put fish in. Too late now.

I don't have any water test strips. I'll go to the store and get some tomorrow.

 

[addy1]

Thanks for the advice.



I don't have any water test strips. I'll go to the store and get some tomorrow.

The liquid test kits are better, more accurate. You can get them off the internet.

 

[sissy]

I left my pond cycle over 6 weeks before I put my fish from old pond in and I used some water from old pond to help it cycle and used a filter from old pond because it was already growing some good stuff .I found that I take my water to a local pet store to be tested and they give me a read out and they know my pond by now .I still have the home tests I do but at least once a month I take it there 'I left them know about how I filter my water how many fish I have the aerator I have and that helps them help me .Not all pet shops do it only some but worth a try also

 

[sissy]

In PA you may want to get a pond heater now that they are clearanced out you can pick one up cheap about 30 dollars or so .Your pond for PA should be at least 4 ft.deep for the winter.I bought 750 watt 1 at pet mountain online and it was just over 30 dollars and I bought there food there and strawberry blueberry and orange treats to get free shipping

 

[sissy]

digging the hole is hard work but taking care of a pond is sometimes harder when you are first learning and you will always make a mistake or two .We learn from them .

 

[max384]

Darn my impatience! After typing out my response (and before reading Addy's), something came up and I had to go into town to the store. Since I was out, I stopped by the pet shop and got a set of test strips. Well, there are 25 strips in the kit. Once those are done, I'll invest in a liquid test kit.

It's pouring rain out right now, so I'll test the water a little later.


Sissy,
I did read somewhere that it's a good idea to add some pond water from an already established pond, so I grabbed a few cups out of one of the ponds at a local pond/gardening store and put it into mine when I bought the plants. Hopefully that will do some good.

I guess I will have to get a heater. I was kinda planning on doing that anyway. My deep end is only two feet deep. and the shallow end is 16". Will a, say 750W, heater work for a 400 gallon pond? Bigger? Smaller? Will this keep the whole pond ice free or just keep a hole open?

 

[addy1]

Darn my impatience! After typing out my response (and before reading Addy's), something came up and I had to go into town to the store. Since I was out, I stopped by the pet shop and got a set of test strips. Well, there are 25 strips in the kit. Once those are done, I'll invest in a liquid test kit.

It's pouring rain out right now, so I'll test the water a little later.


Sissy,
I did read somewhere that it's a good idea to add some pond water from an already established pond, so I grabbed a few cups out of one of the ponds at a local pond/gardening store and put it into mine when I bought the plants. Hopefully that will do some good.

I guess I will have to get a heater. I was kinda planning on doing that anyway. My deep end is only two feet deep. and the shallow end is 16". Will a, say 750W, heater work for a 400 gallon pond? Bigger? Smaller? Will this keep the whole pond ice free or just keep a hole open?

Get a stock trough heater, they seem to work well. I don't use any heaters. My pond is deep, it froze 8 inches down last winter.

You might not be deep enough for fish to make it through the winter, goldfish might make it, but no koi, your pond is too small for koi.

The test strips will work, the liquid is just more accurate.

 

[sissy]

The problem with a stock trough heater is they cost just about as much and they have no protection around them .I had one for my old pond and now use it for the deer water .The one I had got to close to the edge and burned my preformed liner .Lucky when I went outside I smelled it .The one from pet mountain I bought has rubberized plastic around it and floats real nice .It should be enough to keep a good sized opening and I like the fact it shuts itself off when not needed .In PA his fish would not make it up that way when it gets colder it gets colder .My cousins pond is around 4 feet and he was going deeper this summer .He had a heater but it could hardly keep up .He got the 250 watt one but his pond is around 2000 gallons or more

 

[max384]

Get a stock trough heater, they seem to work well. I don't use any heaters. My pond is deep, it froze 8 inches down last winter.

You might not be deep enough for fish to make it through the winter, goldfish might make it, but no koi, your pond is too small for koi.

The test strips will work, the liquid is just more accurate.

I'm definitely not getting koi. I know my pond is too small for that. When you say that my pond might not be deep enough for fish to make it through winter, do you mean without a heater?

There was a break in the rain, so I went out and tested the water. It turned out the ammonia kit is liquid, the rest of the values are test strips.
nitrate: 0
nitrite: 0
Hardness (GH): 75ppm
Chlorine: 0
Alkalinity (KH): 0
pH: 7.2
Ammonia: 2.0ppm

All the values look good except the ammonia. That seems really high. What is the best short term and then long-term treatment for the ammonia? Would the liquid pond bacteria solutions I've seen advertised on the internet be a good idea?

 

[addy1]

Water change to get the level down

"As a general rule an ammonia reading of more than 0.25 ppm is an indicator of one or more of the following problems: Overfeeding, overstocking or too much decaying plant life. The increased ammonia level is not necessarily an indicator of the elevated nitrite level. The nitrite level should be tested separately on a regular basis.

A new pond filter will take between 2 to 4 weeks to establish a big enough colony of nitrifying bacteria to successfully breakdown ammonia, as it appears. Don't forget that during the initial month you must not add more than 2 fish per week. After both ammonia and nitrite levels drop to nil, more pond fish and aquatic life can be added.


"

Make sure you are not feeding to much, add air stones and surface movement

 

[max384]

Water change to get the level down

"As a general rule an ammonia reading of more than 0.25 ppm is an indicator of one or more of the following problems: Overfeeding, overstocking or too much decaying plant life. The increased ammonia level is not necessarily an indicator of the elevated nitrite level. The nitrite level should be tested separately on a regular basis.

A new pond filter will take between 2 to 4 weeks to establish a big enough colony of nitrifying bacteria to successfully breakdown ammonia, as it appears. Don't forget that during the initial month you must not add more than 2 fish per week. After both ammonia and nitrite levels drop to nil, more pond fish and aquatic life can be added.


"

Make sure you are not feeding to much, add air stones and surface movement

I added twenty inch-long comet goldfish a couple of days ago. Unfortunately, I didn't realize this was a bad idea... But what's done is done.

I did some poking around on the internet and found that lower pHs will cause Ammonia to be less harmful (due to conversion of ammonia to ammonium because of increased H+ ions). I found a chart online that gives a multiplier (to multiply with your NH3+ in ppm). It says that if the final value is over 0.05, the ammonia is at toxic levels. Here is the chart:

http://www.tropicalkoiclub.org/Publications/WQ101.htm

The pond water is at 65 degrees F. I used the 72 F column, since the values decrease with decreasing temp. Using this, I came up with a 'toxic ammonia' value of 0.014ppm, which is well below that value.

Here is another chart I found that doesn't require any math; just reading the chart:

http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia2ppm


I know that the only really good value for ammonia is 0, but it seems like this is okay for a new pond? What do you guys think?

What does everyone think about adding the liquid bacteria solutions to a pond?

 

[addy1]

Good research! Just watch the ammonia it can go up on you sometimes pretty fast esp in a new pond.
Your post said 2.00ppm of ammonia. those charts show .000 numbers, maybe I am translating things wrong

Some add the bacteria, some don't, I think it does no harm to try.

My husband has a house he bought as a foreclosure. It had been empty for about a year, about 6 months after he bought it he was cleaning the front yard. Found a piece of plywood picked it up, under the plywood was a small preformed pond with goldfish in it.

They lived without heat, light, food except what got into the pond. We do get cold enough for things to freeze up well.

So not saying that is the way to treat fish, but saying goldfish are very tough. I know a ponder in penna, that lets his pond freeze with goldfish and has had no issues.
Once again not saying that is what you should do.

Mine froze over, did not think we had fish in it. My pond is deep, it froze down the 8 inches, melted in the spring and 5 little fish showed up.

So you may be fine esp if you keep a heater in it.

Thanks sissy I didn't know that, figured they had a cage around them to keep that from happening.

 

[max384]

Good news. I checked the water again this morning and the ammonia values look much better. Here are the numbers:
nitrate: 0
nitrite: 0
Hardness (GH): 75ppm
Chlorine: 0
Alkalinity (KH): 80
pH: 7.2
Ammonia: between 0 and 25ppm

I hadn't thought about it last night, but I had added the water lillies and repotted all the other plants I already had in there last night a few hours before I checked the water. When I repotted the plants, I used a once-a-year fertilizer in each pot, as per the instructions from the worker at the pond/garden store. I wonder if that caused a spike in ammonia levels?

It should be noted also that two of the fish died. Both of them died within hours of putting them into the pond. One had this white stuff on the side of his face. It didn't look like ich at all, it almost looked like it was his flesh sloughing off. The other looked outwardly healthy. I put the bag in the water and left it for about an hour to acclimatize them and then opened the bag and let them all swim out on their own. I wasn't, and still am not, too worried since they were just feeder goldfish. In prior experience with aquariums, I've always had a few feeder fish die when I buy some. What do you guys think? Should I treat with ich treatment just in case, even though it doesn't look like it to me in my not-professional opinion?