A "nerthener" in the South building self-sustaining ponds.

[Meyer Jordan]

Just read Mr. Pavlis' blog post on ponds that is posted on his website 'Garden Myths'.
For the most part he does hit on the highlights of Freshwater ecology. What he gives little attention to and is the prime driver in the need for pumps and supplemental filtration in most instances is.....Fish.
The presence of fish (of any kind) in a pond drastically changes the dynamics of said pond by greatly influencing water chemistry and hence quality.
Do not make the mistake of confining all of your reading and research to one source especially if the information is anecdotal.

 

[pastures]

Thank you, again, Nepen for your response. Different from your installation, my clients want a depth of at least 6'; most want 10'-12' for fish - not for koi or goldfish. Because of our predominant flat land surface, depth adds problems with both air and temperature - ingredients for temperature inversions and fish kills. Most often clients revert to what they grew up with and exposed to as children for swimming and fishing. I readily accept their pre-conceived images as my chance to begin challenging and expanding both their curiosity and ownership of their "new" pond. [Educated clients are fun to work with and for - they quickly become valid owners of either success or failure of their investment, similar to your enthusiasm. We then become "partners" in conceiving and achieving their "image."]

Our flat topography, with little to no slope, eliminates large enough streams to become a viable, visual asset. Besides, our water table remains so high. Constructing a stream on a flat surface adds a critical expense which usually does not generate a strong return on its investment (build-up of soil base, underlayment for the stream, and efficient pumps - usually electrical). By the way, I love to build/create streams and waterfalls. They fulfill so many of our collective senses for well-being.

I believe that I have about twenty, dynamic (color and size) water plants to use here in Louisiana. Your description of your installment sounds perfect; I am just beginning down this long, very interesting journey. I congratulate you.

 

[pastures]

Just read Mr. Pavlis' blog post on ponds that is posted on his website 'Garden Myths'.
For the most part he does hit on the highlights of Freshwater ecology. What he gives little attention to and is the prime driver in the need for pumps and supplemental filtration in most instances is.....Fish.
The presence of fish (of any kind) in a pond drastically changes the dynamics of said pond by greatly influencing water chemistry and hence quality.
Do not make the mistake of confining all of your reading and research to one source especially if the information is anecdotal.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

From what you have posted, I would say that your biggest obstacle is the high water table in your area. Not only will excavation be difficult, if even possible, the issue of hydrostatic pressure will need to be dealt with before any type of membrane liner can be installed. Failure to do so will only result in floating liner or what we call in the industry 'Whales'.

 

[pastures]

I agree. My google search has generated little information on self-sustaining ponds. Amazon have listed a few instructional "how-to's." Most local ponds (southern Louisiana) have no moving water through them, and yet they support much life (aquatic and flora). My google search did, nevertheless, listed this forum. I now feel blessed by your presence, interest and experience and by the many other members' advice. I noticed that Pavlis kept the number of fish extremely limited in number/pounds but that he deliberately wanted no outside sources of energy: pumps and man-made filtration. Lastly, I am lucky also to have the National Resource Conservation Service as an initial contact before I even begin digging.

 

[pastures]

From what you have posted, I would say that your biggest obstacle is the high water table in your area. Not only will excavation be difficult, if even possible, the issue of hydrostatic pressure will need to be dealt with before any type of membrane liner can be installed. Failure to do so will only result in floating liner or what we call in the industry 'Whales'.

 

[pastures]

You are 100% correct about "whales." What condition that makes digging even more difficult than just high water table, is what we describe as "Black Jack" - very sticky, gelatinous clay mud that is almost impossible to dump from my bucket. Once its moisture has evaporated, it then becomes "concrete" very difficult to spread and work atferwards

 

[Nepen]

You are 100% correct about "whales." What condition that makes digging even more difficult than just high water table, is what we describe as "Black Jack" - very sticky, gelatinous clay mud that is almost impossible to dump from my bucket. Once its moisture has evaporated, it then becomes "concrete" very difficult to spread and work atferwards

that's what we have here in Durham as well. the excavator (which i operated) was not happy. My husband was quite happy for me to be the one to do it because it was my pond and when i 'gave up digging' I couldnt blame him lol.
we live up on a little hill, so I think that help with water table (which I dont even know for our area).
We have lot of rocks and quartz and the clay clumps as hard as rocks so i have to spray water around the side of the hole and sunk those in the clay so they wont puncture my liner (we didnt have a liner for the liner ).

 

[pastures]

Here in Louisiana with its very high water table, our window to dig ponds is limited to our "dry" season when that table drops to more than 5'. Otherwise, digging a pond becomes a very effective exercise in frustration . . . also, expensive. We are now in our dry season: September to December.

 

[pastures]

that's what we have here in Durham as well. the excavator (which i operated) was not happy. My husband was quite happy for me to be the one to do it because it was my pond and when i 'gave up digging' I couldnt blame him lol.
we live up on a little hill, so I think that help with water table (which I dont even know for our area).
We have lot of rocks and quartz and the clay clumps as hard as rocks so i have to spray water around the side of the hole and sunk those in the clay so they wont puncture my liner (we didnt have a liner for the liner ).

 

[pastures]

I forgot to share my "trick" to digging Black Jack. That rude experience increased my immediate desperation to find the most efficient method of "attack." First, I learned not to curl my bucket to fill it, but let most of that half load sit on the outside edges and teeth. Thus, the weight of the water-soak clay helped the clump fall off and out of my bucket. Secondly, when spreading it (or working it) I would let it dry enough and begin pushing/spreading it during high-sun around noontime. That clay was surprisingly full of nutrients supporting quick growth of grass. [I also used a power rake to bust up the dumped clumps and spread them evenly.] I hope that this info helps you.

 

[Mmathis]

From what you have posted, I would say that your biggest obstacle is the high water table in your area. Not only will excavation be difficult, if even possible, the issue of hydrostatic pressure will need to be dealt with before any type of membrane liner can be installed. Failure to do so will only result in floating liner or what we call in the industry 'Whales'.

Been there, done (and doing) that! We have a high water table (also LA). When I did a rehab a couple years ago, I built the pond slightly above ground -- a foot or so -- to be sure the pond was always FULL with the water level higher than ground level. So far, so good! When I walk in the pond, I can tell it's wet underneath the liner (mushy feeling), but no floaties, LOL!

 

[pastures]

If I understand your pond, you used a pond liner to raise its water level one foot above the natural water table within the ground? If I extrapolate correctly, you have an outside source of water (for that extra foot besides the entire pond's volume), and the weight of that extra foot helps to hold your liner close to the bottom? Therefore, your turtle habit has to be higher than your pond. The one detail that I wonder is the composition of your soil. Here in southern Louisiana, our "soil" consists mostly of clay which affords us to dig a pond almost anywhere because the clay, combined with our high water table, will hold the pond water in place. We, however, can encounter meandering deep layers of sand/gravel which quickly can defeat any pond. [Our local office of the National Resource Conservation Service conducts free borings at one's proposed pond site to ensure that the clay content of that site will hold water at whatever depth.] Thus, are you lucky enough to have either real organic soil, for crops, and/or a combination?

 

[pastures]

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you, Miss Becky, for your cordial welcome. PASTURES