Algal Blooms

[addy1]

I have never denied their impacts and their efficacy, that is entirely dependent on the pond's water chemistry and environmental variables and how they are built, but there is no need to create exaggerations, which does not help anyone. Especially in regards to bio-filters, everything has their limitations and pros/cons including bogs.

sigh I am not exaggerating when i state no algae no green water in my pond, just stating facts. Clear water happy fish

Any links to these bog builds?

I think countryescape mentions hers here
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/8579-country-escapes-2nd-pond-goldfish-only/?hl=countryescape

This is pond mavens thread

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/6776-ok-here-we-go-pond-started/?hl=pond+maven#entry79294

I wrote up a little on building bogs here.

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/6894-bog-building/

 

[crsublette]

sigh I am not exaggerating when i state no algae no green water in my pond, just stating facts. Clear water happy fish

It is an exaggeration when stating "no algae" as validated from these pictures that you've shared clearly depicting carpet algae and a floating slime algae. Then, for the readers, notice the tremendous volume of plants versus the ratio of pond surface area, which proves the point I've been trying to make that volume matters with this type of biofiltration. Pics1 (in bog), Pics2, Pics3. I can find more pictures showing this. I bet ya if ya took an underwater camera picture of the growth underneath the lilly pads and on the stems or any free floating roots then you would notice a type of very small brown diatom algae, that flakes away like dust, which almost looks like a bio-film; after my maintenance program, this is the only algae found in my pond other than the slime algae in my stream (that I try to keep algae in my stream). Also, you can not discount the potential algae you will not see due to the fish feeding on the algae as well.

Correct, it is not the aesthetically displeasing form of algae but it is still algae, which again proves my point that there is simply different species of algae encourage to grow although may not be proliferate. This is a good thing and what we are aiming for!!

This is a good thing since some algae's and fungi's have a symbiotic relationship with plants to help make nutrients more soluble and provide complex sugars to the plants.

This same result, lack of green water and very limited algae, is seen as well in aquaponic grow bed systems.

I would hope your results are replicated for everyone's pond with a bog, but, folks, do not be surprised when that is not the case since it all depends on the ratio volume of plants versus the pond.

I don't understand what the beef here is in regards to this issue and is a reason why I don't talk biofiltration. Just trying to look out for those potential bog owners and readers that may end up with a result that may not be representative of your picture and to tell them not to give up on the idea.

Also, I believe in your situation, best I can recall from memory, you do not use any UV device nor do any major water changes other than the water change performed by heavy rain fall, and you have a significant volume of oyster shells as well and all of this does help the situation.

Addy, I have always admired and loved your bog and the results you obtain from it, but lets not kid our self about what is happening here behind the scenes and why it is working as it does work.

 

[addy1]

Qualify, no string algae, no green water syndrome, in the big pond and subbie tank.
pic 1 yep the bog always has some algae in it, if any gravel is hit with full sun, esp at the start of spring.
pic2 that is the top very small pond of the stream, it flows twice a day, as I have said before the stream ponds do have algae in them, same with the low flow preforms. The preforms get fed via a 1/2 inch hose faucet, maybe a 10 gallons an hour. I would need to measure the flow. The stream just runs twice a day. ow still water that grows great algae.
pic3 is showing the muck on the bottom, 4 feet down, don't think it is carpet algae as I can just lift it out with the net and move it with the brush down to bare liner, lots of loose stuff, it is some sort of debris and possibly some algae. I have not netted the bottom of the pond since last spring. The specks on the surface is fish food and flower petals.

Yep there is algae on the lilies, can't see it unless you pull the plants out or via the cam. Very little brown stuff.

No uv, no significant water changes unless nature helps out. I do add 1/2 hour of water a day. The plants use it up and evaporation.

I will attempt to be more specific in the future.

Glad you like my bog, I did not think I was kidding myself about how it works.

The items you speak of are insignificant to me, in the big picture of how my ponds work, not really noticeable, except the algae in the streams and small ponds. But that stuff gives the tads, dragonfly larvae a nice place to live.

I am just totally pleased that I have no STRING algae in the big pond or any GREEN water in any of the ponds, ever, even at start up. The water is always crystal clear.

 

[crsublette]

Very good. Thank you for clarifying. Even though insignificant, it is important to the big picture, I really do hope others obtain the same results, and continue to persevere with the idea.

 

[joesandy1822]

OK, I thought I would just post this here instead of making a new topic, so people can have my background info.

The "pea green soup" appearance is gone, but now the water is a brownish tint. It is not completely "clear" like tea, but I can see down about 15" or so. Still cannot see the bottom. I don't know what to make of what's left. I thought maybe tannins, but I don't think there are many, if any, leaves in there (I can't see the bottom, so I don't know for SURE). I know there may be some small elm leaves in the rocks around the plant ledge, but the pond itself if bare liner. I do have 5 potted lilies, so maybe that soil is the cause. My numbers are all good.

I filled a glass with pond water last night. I read that if it is floating debris or algae, it will sink to the bottom after several hours. If it is tannins, it will remain suspended. Well, this morning there is nothing on the bottom of the glass. Whatever it is has remained suspended. However, I have to add that I put some quilt batting in my skimmer yesterday and today, and I have to change it or rinse it every few hours because it does become clogged. These two findings seem contrary to each other, so I am stumped.

I'm assuming that since the visibility is getting BETTER, that it is just still algae. Maybe dead algae? I doubt tannins would get better without water changes, which I do not do. I thought about getting some activated carbon to try, and if it IS tannins, that should help. But it is pretty pricey, plus I'm trying to be less "reactive" and basically just keep my numbers good and "wait it out". I can at least see the fish now when they come up from the bottom.

Any thoughts?

Sandy

 

[sewsheknits]

OK, I thought I would just post this here instead of making a new topic, so people can have my background info.

The "pea green soup" appearance is gone, but now the water is a brownish tint. It is not completely "clear" like tea, but I can see down about 15" or so. Still cannot see the bottom. I don't know what to make of what's left. I thought maybe tannins, but I don't think there are many, if any, leaves in there (I can't see the bottom, so I don't know for SURE). I know there may be some small elm leaves in the rocks around the plant ledge, but the pond itself if bare liner. I do have 5 potted lilies, so maybe that soil is the cause. My numbers are all good.

I filled a glass with pond water last night. I read that if it is floating debris or algae, it will sink to the bottom after several hours. If it is tannins, it will remain suspended. Well, this morning there is nothing on the bottom of the glass. Whatever it is has remained suspended. However, I have to add that I put some quilt batting in my skimmer yesterday and today, and I have to change it or rinse it every few hours because it does become clogged. These two findings seem contrary to each other, so I am stumped.

I'm assuming that since the visibility is getting BETTER, that it is just still algae. Maybe dead algae? I doubt tannins would get better without water changes, which I do not do. I thought about getting some activated carbon to try, and if it IS tannins, that should help. But it is pretty pricey, plus I'm trying to be less "reactive" and basically just keep my numbers good and "wait it out". I can at least see the fish now when they come up from the bottom.

Any thoughts?

Sandy

Sandy,

My pond is roughly your size (3500gal) in full sun. I've been battling the pea soup all summer. The quilt batting worked for me for a bit but I had to do more than just add it to my skimmer basket so I built a separate filter. It cleared in a few days but then I added plant fertilizer tabs and I think I threw off the whole algae cycle again and the green stuff came back with a vengeance. I'm learning but slowly. I'm starting from scratch with another quilt batting filter set-up. When my pond cleared the first time, there was tea-stained water left but I could see to the bottom of the almost 6ft deep pond. I put one small container of activated charcoal from WalMart in a length of panty hose knotted at one end and placed it in the bottom of the quilt batting filter. It seemed to clear the water a bit. I'm not expecting much because the pond is close to large Live Oak trees and I'm sure those leaves/acorns fall in the pond from time to time until I net the whole thing this fall. I'm hoping to slow the flow to my UV filter in order for that to work properly(thanks to a tip from Charles) but in the meantime, I'm going back to the quilt batting. I'd like to see my fishies, too!

By the way, the quilt batting filter was one of Horton's ideas. Like this:

Posted by pat_c 5/ N W OHIO (My Page) on Mon, May 19, 08 at 17:48
Here's an old trick Horton taught me years ago. Take a clean tall kitchen trash can. Cut a series of holes in the side at the bottom. Do this on only one side of the trash can. Get a box of poly batt at walmart. Unwind it and stuff it in the bottom of the trash can and set the trash can at the edge of the pond with the side with the holes facing toward the pond. Then run a hose from your pond to the top of the trash can. The water will fill the can and run down thru the batt and filter. Then it will run out the holes in the can back into the pond. Run this for 2-3 days and I promise the pond will clear. You will have to clean the Batt evry so often but it will trap all that suspended algae. I only had to do this once and my pond cleared and stayed clear.

 

[joesandy1822]

sewsheknits, thanks for the reply! I have tinkered with the thought of trying the Horton trash can filter, but I do not have an extra pump laying around. My setup is VERY simple. I have the pond, a filterfalls at one end, and a skimmer at the other. There is one hose from the skimmer to the falls, and that is it, and it is buried in the dirt along the pond (shallow). No fancy plumbing at all. So in order for me to do this temporary filter, I would need an extra pump, I presume? I'm trying not to sink extra money into this, but if there is a way to do it without buying extra supplies, that would be a no-brainer worth a try.

One thing I forgot to mention, everybody, is that about a week ago I put a 50 lb. bag of crushed oyster shells in a mesh bag beneath my falls to. The water turned cloudy immediately from the shell dust, but that was to be expected because I did not take time to rinse them first. However, maybe this addition has done something to the water chemistry that is adding to the color? I will recheck my numbers today and post later, but last I checked, everything was A-ok.

Sandy

 

[crsublette]

Sandy, do you have an extra pump as a backup whenever your present pump will burn out ?? All pumps will eventually burn out to wear and tear. If there are power outtages or some freak accident that ruins your pump, then it would be a very good idea to have a pump backup. While you're not using the backup pump, then you can temporarily use it for something like the Horton quilt batting filter. I bet ya, due to the size of it, the Horton filter will take much longer to clog. To make it more aesthetically pleasing, maybe you can paint daisies all over the trash can or something so that it is less of an eye sore for the few days it is being used

I doubt the oyster shells is what is causing the water color. The initial dust sure, but this should eventually clear up.

 

[joesandy1822]

Sandy, do you have an extra pump as a backup whenever your present pump will burn out ?? All pumps will eventually burn out to wear and tear. If there are power outtages or some freak accident that ruins your pump, then it would be a very good idea to have a pump backup. While you're not using the backup pump, then you can temporarily use it for something like the Horton quilt batting filter. I bet ya, due to the size of it, the Horton filter will take much longer to clog. To make it more aesthetically pleasing, maybe you can paint daisies all over the trash can or something so that it is less of an eye sore for the few days it is being used

No, I don't have an extra pump yet. I know it is a good idea to have one on hand, but since this is a brand-new pond, I thought I would have some time to get that in place. Not to mention it took me some time to convince hubby to let me do this in the first place because of the expense. So convincing him we need another $300 pump "just in case" would not be a great thing at this point.

Before I buy an extra pump, I still have to get a nice sized aerator for the winter to keep a hole in the ice, since I will be shutting down the falls. I also need to purchase a large pond net to keep the leaves out before fall. So the pump is not up there on the list, although I'm sure some would say I should have bought that already. I guess we all have to make those choices when money is limited.

For the Horton filter, I am guessing that the pump would not have to be quite as powerful as the main pond pump? There are no hard rules as to how much water would be going through the filter since it's just an add-on thing right? So maybe I could even go to Lowe's and get a cheap sump pump and use a garden hose? Or would a garden hose be too small? Is there a picture of this somewhere?

Come to think of it, my main pump might have an extra outlet on it, POSSIBLY. Then all I would need to get is some additional hose somewhere. That flexible, freeze-proof stuff I bought for the initial setup was really pricey and they don't sell it locally that I know of.

 

[crsublette]

A pump that will work sufficiently well enough, that is turning the pond over at least once a hour, to last you long enough until the broken pump is replaced. I would view the backup like the donut, spare tire, on your car, that is you don't necessarily want to rely on your spare tire to be a primary tire on your car. All ya need the pump to do is connect to your filtration system whenever your primary pump fails.

You could use a submersible pump, but these pumps generally consume much more electricity than a typical pond pump.


Please, do not allow all the "stuff" in this hobby add to any personal financial nor relationship strain, because, then, I think this hobby becomes less of a tool for enjoyment, less of a tool for serenity to our self and others, and less of a tool to connect people. So, don't allow this to happen. This hobby should be for the betterment of our mental health and is a great conversation starter. :beerchug:

I would just add a backup pump, to be dual purpose, on to the wish list.

 

[joesandy1822]

Thank you, Charles. Well said, and I couldn't agree more. We all have enough stress as it is, and I would like my ponding experience to bring relaxation and joy to myself and others....not more stress. This is basically how I'm striving to run my pond for OUR situation, and realizing that everybody's situation is different, not only financially, but relationally. Things might be different if I only had to be concerned with myself, but that is just not the case.

Will check into a "cheap" 3,000 gallon backup pond pump. And I'm going out to look at my existing pump to see if there is an additional outlet. I know there is an extra "something or other", but I just can't remember.

 

[sewsheknits]

No, I don't have an extra pump yet. I know it is a good idea to have one on hand, but since this is a brand-new pond, I thought I would have some time to get that in place. Not to mention it took me some time to convince hubby to let me do this in the first place because of the expense. So convincing him we need another $300 pump "just in case" would not be a great thing at this point.

Before I buy an extra pump, I still have to get a nice sized aerator for the winter to keep a hole in the ice, since I will be shutting down the falls. I also need to purchase a large pond net to keep the leaves out before fall. So the pump is not up there on the list, although I'm sure some would say I should have bought that already. I guess we all have to make those choices when money is limited.

For the Horton filter, I am guessing that the pump would not have to be quite as powerful as the main pond pump? There are no hard rules as to how much water would be going through the filter since it's just an add-on thing right? So maybe I could even go to Lowe's and get a cheap sump pump and use a garden hose? Or would a garden hose be too small? Is there a picture of this somewhere?

Come to think of it, my main pump might have an extra outlet on it, POSSIBLY. Then all I would need to get is some additional hose somewhere. That flexible, freeze-proof stuff I bought for the initial setup was really pricey and they don't sell it locally that I know of.

I did just that, Sandy...went straight to Lowes and bought a 560gph pump for under $50. I just saw someone post that Big Lots had a good PondMaster pump on sale for around $25. I don't think I'd invest in a $300 pump just for the Horton filter, though. Buy the cheap quilt batting (make sure it doesn't say Flame Resistant) in polyester at WalMart or on sale at JoAnn's. If you end up with an inexpensive submersible for this filter (not the backup you'll want when the budget fits), just make sure it isn't sitting on the bottom of your pond. It could shift and drain your pond. Not good.

 

[joesandy1822]

So, here it is about 6 weeks past my original post regarding algal blooms. Wanted to give you all an update, with some added info here just in case somebody else might run into the same weird situation.

Over the past 2 days, the pond has totally cleared straight to the bottom. As always when this happens, I am in shock and awe. Anyhow, I was in DOUBLE shock when, to my amazement, all of my hornwort seemed to have just disappeared. I mean, I purchased 100 bunches of the stuff, and before the pond had initially gone green, it was growing like gangbusters. It looked like a kelp forest under there. The fish LOVED it, and we enjoyed watching all of them swimming around amidst the hornwort. I know some people don't like it, but I do. It's a good place for fry to hide, it's a great oxygenator.....well, I just love it. I know it can be invasive, but it can just be yanked out and tossed, much like too many hyacinths, if it gets to be too much.

Anyhow, upon further examination of the bottom of the pond (just visually, I have not gone in yet), the hornwort has not actually disappeared. It is just laying flat on the bottom where typically it stands up like a tree. I mean ALL of it is flat. I'm thinking "what the heck?!" Anyhow, a thought came to my mind, and when I called the supplier to inquire, even before I shared my thoughts, they confirmed what I thought. THE ALGAE BLOOM OUTCOMPETED THE HORNWORT FOR NUTRIENTS! They are pretty confident that, assuming I did not use any chemicals in the pond to kill the algae or "balance" the pond, the hornwort will come back. It might be that some or a lot is dead, but some are likely still living. He feels there is probably enough life left there for it to rejuvenate since it is such a hearty plant. Anyhow, I just thought I'd share. I never even gave it a second thought that an algal bloom could kill any submerged plants. I'll post back here and let y'all know how it recovers. I am praying it does. The fish are still swimming in it, and especially the wee new babies are hiding in it on the bottom of the pond.

The only thing I'm wondering is if I should actually get in the pond and pull some of it up to inspect, see if it is dead, and pull as much out as possible. If it is truly dead, then it will only add more nutrients to the pond and I will get yet another bloom. It is a bare liner, so there is no soil. It just stays submerged with lead weights. But I don't have a pond vac yet, so not quite sure if or how to go about it. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Sandy

 

[crsublette]

Thanks for sharing!! :claphands:

Yeah, I imagine the algae bloom choked the hornwort of light and possibly nutritents causing it to die off. I have often seen algae growth on plant leaves get so thick it just strangles the plant. Fully submerged aquatic plants are tricky like this and they are extremely sensitive to being harmed by oxidizers and algaecides; these plants are quite fragile. Hopefully the plant was not choked off so bad to prevent it from returning.

My concern is all of the plant decay that will now happen. If ya don't have any aquatic critters such as snails, leeches, or other aquatic critters to consume the plant decay, then the plant decay will likely create another big algae bloom.

Personally, I would go in, grab a bunch or two, and very slowly trim the dead plant decay off. Since you're wanting to see if the plant will come back, not for sure if you should leave some of the decay and probably would need to be careful about trimming the decay so the plant's roots are not damaged.

Everytime this happened to me, then I just tossed the plant. I never had the patience to see if it would come back. Hopefully others will have better insight to give ya.

 

[joesandy1822]

My concern is all of the plant decay that will now happen. If ya don't have any aquatic critters such as snails, leeches, or other aquatic critters to consume the plant decay, then the plant decay will likely create another big algae bloom.

Everytime this happened to me, then I just tossed the plant. I never had the patience to see if it would come back. Hopefully others will have better insight to give ya.

Well, there are lots of snails in the pond, although I did not put them there. They just showed up. Don't know how helpful they will be or if they are the "right" kind, but they are there. Haven't seen any leeches though. And I was thinking the same thing. I really don't want another algae bloom. It's like a vicious cycle though. I thought I had enough hornwort and other plants to out compete the algae for nutrients, but I guess that was not the case, at least at that time and for that particular kind of algae.

I've thought about going in and trying to scoop up as much as possible and throw it out, except I cringe thinking about the $100 going in the trash. When I spoke with the people at Lillyblooms, they advised me to leave it. They were familiar enough with what likely happened to it in the first place, asked if I had used any chemicals to balance the pond, and then advised me to leave it alone. I did ask them if I should remove it, and that's when they said to leave it.

I need to go in anyhow and do some lily grooming, so when I do that, I think I'll try and grab some up and inspect it to see exactly what it looks like and go from there.

I know one thing......it is REALLY exciting to have a clear pond again. I have so many baby fish already. Considering the pond was only filled at the end of May, I think that's pretty good. I was told that none of the fish would spawn for another year. I guess they had other plans! Wish I knew if the babies are all comets, or if some of them are shubunkins. I guess time will tell.