Thanks for all the replies.
I type a long response, then accidentally deleted it - argh!!!
I type a long response, then accidentally deleted it - argh!!!
Bottom Drains and skimmers
- Thread starter archimedes
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Thanks. I would like that. Feel free to PM me.gardengimp said:
fishin4cars
True friends just call me Larkin
I keep all the above ponds, one has skimmer and Bottom drain, (Koi Only, no plants) One that has skimming but no bottom drain, Again, has Butterfly Koi and plants, two ponds that are almost no fish load, plants for the most part only and the only filtration is a Sponge filter and the plants themselves.
The pond with bottom drain and skimmer, easiest to maintain by far, I can clean the filters and do a water change in a few minutes and no need to get wet at all. However, this is also the pond that I am having the hardest time keeping the water clear even with more than enough filtration to maintain the fish load.
The pond with the skimmer and no bottom drain, I also use Bog filtration on. this pond has about the same fish load as the previous pond, It stays crystal clear all year and has since initial set-up. I do like the skimmer as it removes about 80% of the leaves, pollen and dust and the surface stays clear plus it's fairly easy to take the skimmer leaf net out dump the leaves and clean the pre-filter pad. the major drawback to this pond is keeping the muck build up off the bottom. I have to net the leaves off the bottom a few times during the year and then come fall it's a most to clean all the debris, the closest tree is almost 50' away, does not stop the leaves from collecting in the pond at all, the skimmer does catch most but I must stay on top and empty the leaf net daily once the leaves do start falling. I also have to vacuum the bottom of the pond 3-4 times a year to keep up with the build up on the bottom to keep water quality in check. this pond takes about 30 minutes a week too maintain, I do have to get wet to clean and the labor is a lot more intensive, but overall quite manageable.
The ponds with no skimmer and no Bottom drain. ( actually they do have a bottom drain for dumping when I need to clean or just want to flush the muck from the bottom, however they are NOT used as part of the filtration, Like a Koiphen pond. With minimal fish load, heavy plant load, and aeration these ponds are fairly stable so far. the water stays clear, the plants are thriving and the few fish that are in there for mosquito control seem to be quite happy.
I guess as you can tell there are several ways to keep a pond. Are skimmers and bottom drains needed? in many cases NO, they are not. But with that being said, here are my personal recommendations. First off, plan ahead what kind of pond you want. Is it going to be a primarily plant pond, with low fish load? if so, I don't think it's really needed and a pond like this can be quite successful. Is it going to be a combination of plants and fish? If so Plan ahead for adequate filtration, A skimmer isn't absolutely needed but I do recommend them for ease of up-keep, But I do recommend that good filtration is planned for in advance and used. If not eventually the fish will put out more waste than the pond can handle breaking down on it's on. If your going with a Koi only pond? Skimming is a nice option, Koi put off more proteins and waste than goldfish and plants put off, the skimmer helps in removing this from the surface and makes the viewing a lot better, however, It does not have to be a highly sophisticated skimmer unless you are having a problem with leaves falling. then you want one with a leaf trap/net, Bottom drains and mid water out put is a option I highly recommend. Koi waste is far larger and heavier than water, so most of it goes straight to the bottom, If it's not removed and starts breaking down in the pond water quality becomes a issue, In a Koi only pond water is usually deeper for the larger fish, sides are usually straight down to protect the koi from predators, and as many will tell you, plants and koi can be a challenge to keep together, so there is a limit to how fast this waste can be broken down, by removing it Via a Bottom drain and getting it out of the pond as soon as possible greatly helps the filtration be able to do it's part better.
The pond with bottom drain and skimmer, easiest to maintain by far, I can clean the filters and do a water change in a few minutes and no need to get wet at all. However, this is also the pond that I am having the hardest time keeping the water clear even with more than enough filtration to maintain the fish load.
The pond with the skimmer and no bottom drain, I also use Bog filtration on. this pond has about the same fish load as the previous pond, It stays crystal clear all year and has since initial set-up. I do like the skimmer as it removes about 80% of the leaves, pollen and dust and the surface stays clear plus it's fairly easy to take the skimmer leaf net out dump the leaves and clean the pre-filter pad. the major drawback to this pond is keeping the muck build up off the bottom. I have to net the leaves off the bottom a few times during the year and then come fall it's a most to clean all the debris, the closest tree is almost 50' away, does not stop the leaves from collecting in the pond at all, the skimmer does catch most but I must stay on top and empty the leaf net daily once the leaves do start falling. I also have to vacuum the bottom of the pond 3-4 times a year to keep up with the build up on the bottom to keep water quality in check. this pond takes about 30 minutes a week too maintain, I do have to get wet to clean and the labor is a lot more intensive, but overall quite manageable.
The ponds with no skimmer and no Bottom drain. ( actually they do have a bottom drain for dumping when I need to clean or just want to flush the muck from the bottom, however they are NOT used as part of the filtration, Like a Koiphen pond. With minimal fish load, heavy plant load, and aeration these ponds are fairly stable so far. the water stays clear, the plants are thriving and the few fish that are in there for mosquito control seem to be quite happy.
I guess as you can tell there are several ways to keep a pond. Are skimmers and bottom drains needed? in many cases NO, they are not. But with that being said, here are my personal recommendations. First off, plan ahead what kind of pond you want. Is it going to be a primarily plant pond, with low fish load? if so, I don't think it's really needed and a pond like this can be quite successful. Is it going to be a combination of plants and fish? If so Plan ahead for adequate filtration, A skimmer isn't absolutely needed but I do recommend them for ease of up-keep, But I do recommend that good filtration is planned for in advance and used. If not eventually the fish will put out more waste than the pond can handle breaking down on it's on. If your going with a Koi only pond? Skimming is a nice option, Koi put off more proteins and waste than goldfish and plants put off, the skimmer helps in removing this from the surface and makes the viewing a lot better, however, It does not have to be a highly sophisticated skimmer unless you are having a problem with leaves falling. then you want one with a leaf trap/net, Bottom drains and mid water out put is a option I highly recommend. Koi waste is far larger and heavier than water, so most of it goes straight to the bottom, If it's not removed and starts breaking down in the pond water quality becomes a issue, In a Koi only pond water is usually deeper for the larger fish, sides are usually straight down to protect the koi from predators, and as many will tell you, plants and koi can be a challenge to keep together, so there is a limit to how fast this waste can be broken down, by removing it Via a Bottom drain and getting it out of the pond as soon as possible greatly helps the filtration be able to do it's part better.
Hind site is always 20/20. Don't take short cuts. Our first pond was around 900 gal. Had the skimmer box, gravel in the bottom of the pond. I had to suction the gravel scoop out leaves from the neighbors trees. The fish love playing in the plants so expect they might not stay put. Plus they decay so more debris on the bottom. Our new pond has an aerated 4 in bottom drain. All mess on the bottom goes into a settlement chamber. The debris settles to the bottom and clean water comes off the top, back through a bio chamber then to the pump. I really love this. It makes more time enjoying the fish and scenery. We had a Heron visit our old pond. It was not deep at all maybe 15 - 16 inches deep. Do provide shelters under the water for them to hide. This is just my thoughts. Best wishes at what ever you choose. Feel free to check out my pictures of our dig.
Thanks to all . This info has been very useful. I almost was turned off the hobby by the complexity of the Koiphen ponds. I think my city has a less complicated wastewater system than some of those ponds. 
Ok, so I'm leaning toward a skimmer, not so sure about the bottom drain.
Since my pond will be above ground and sort of formal, what kind of skimmer would be best. Most seem designed to mimic rocks which wouldn't work for my plan.
Did see this on ebay, anyone try it;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OASE-AquaSkim-40-In-Pond-Skimmer-/111159916025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e1a5b5f9Thanks
Ok, so I'm leaning toward a skimmer, not so sure about the bottom drain.
Since my pond will be above ground and sort of formal, what kind of skimmer would be best. Most seem designed to mimic rocks which wouldn't work for my plan.
Did see this on ebay, anyone try it;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OASE-AquaSkim-40-In-Pond-Skimmer-/111159916025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e1a5b5f9Thanks
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I put in a pool skimmer installed through the liner. Wide weir works great (external pump) No bottom drain
JohnHuff
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I'll be sure to ask for pond water the next time I visit a restaurant in central FL then :cheerful:
I think that type of skimmer is too tiny to be useful. A few leaves and it looks like it will be blocked. More for a 100g fountain than a pond. And I can't believe they're selling that for $89.
I used to have something like this:
http://www.petmountain.com/product/pond-skimmers-waterfalls/11442-522377/tetra-pond-in-pond-skimmer-ponds-up-to-1-000-gallons.html?utm_source=googleproductads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword}&gclid=CLqKqsLF57kCFY9eQgodYDkA1g
Cheap, easy to install, versatile, no need to go through liners or anything. Worked great for me, picked up a lot of stuff. Only problem was that my fish kept on swimming into it, even though there was a barrier. Seemed that they were entranced by water going into this black cave. It happened so often that I took off the lid just so I could see if fish were in there. And I had to check it every day. After a few weaker fish got in there and died, I had to uninstall it. But if you've got big fish (over 10 inches or so), I think it would be a great and simple skimmer.
I think that type of skimmer is too tiny to be useful. A few leaves and it looks like it will be blocked. More for a 100g fountain than a pond. And I can't believe they're selling that for $89.
I used to have something like this:
http://www.petmountain.com/product/pond-skimmers-waterfalls/11442-522377/tetra-pond-in-pond-skimmer-ponds-up-to-1-000-gallons.html?utm_source=googleproductads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword}&gclid=CLqKqsLF57kCFY9eQgodYDkA1g
Cheap, easy to install, versatile, no need to go through liners or anything. Worked great for me, picked up a lot of stuff. Only problem was that my fish kept on swimming into it, even though there was a barrier. Seemed that they were entranced by water going into this black cave. It happened so often that I took off the lid just so I could see if fish were in there. And I had to check it every day. After a few weaker fish got in there and died, I had to uninstall it. But if you've got big fish (over 10 inches or so), I think it would be a great and simple skimmer.
archimedes said:I think my city has a less complicated wastewater system than some of those ponds.
Ok, so I'm leaning toward a skimmer, not so sure about the bottom drain.
Did see this on ebay, anyone try it;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OASE-AquaSkim-40-In-Pond-Skimmer-/111159916025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e1a5b5f9Thanks
Why would the fish go into that skimmer over other weir type skimmers? What did you use instead?JohnHuff said:
JohnHuff
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Well, I tried to ask them but they gave me this fishy look that only other fish can understand.
I just took it out. I have a full net over the pond so the floating stuff isn't that bad, and I net when needed.
I just took it out. I have a full net over the pond so the floating stuff isn't that bad, and I net when needed.
Mucky_Waters said:
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Weird, I had one like that in phoenix, the fish constantly swam into it. I have a side installed pool skimmer in this pond, I have yet to find a fish in it, frogs but no fish.
I like to considered myself a little mix of garden/koi pond enthusiast.
I built a garden pond with no plans to have Koi. But as the pond came to life I found a real desire for Koi LOL. My pond was built with a lined hole and I have biological flirtation via two skippy filters and a small bog. No mechanical filters, no bottom drain, no skimmer, no uv.
I simply net out the bottom once in the spring and once in the fall.
As the years have gone by (3 years) I have grown more and more tired of the semiannual netting of the pond. The rest of my pond requires no maintenance other than water changes and topping it off. I think I am growing more and more lazy is the underlying issue LOL.
So now I am in the preliminary phases of designing a major pond change. I have planting shelves that I don't want because the koi eat the plants I put on them. So I just want one deep pond with no shelves. I figure if I am going to go to that much work I should probably put in a bottom drain so I know longer have to net out the pond. But if I put in a bottom drain I need a vortex tank and a filter pit. It will be a lot of work to build but I am hoping it will reduce my pond maintenance from little to almost none LOL. I plan on continuing to grow more lazy.
It will be a few years and is just in the works.
Either way though I would not use a uv light or skimmer.
I built a garden pond with no plans to have Koi. But as the pond came to life I found a real desire for Koi LOL. My pond was built with a lined hole and I have biological flirtation via two skippy filters and a small bog. No mechanical filters, no bottom drain, no skimmer, no uv.
I simply net out the bottom once in the spring and once in the fall.
As the years have gone by (3 years) I have grown more and more tired of the semiannual netting of the pond. The rest of my pond requires no maintenance other than water changes and topping it off. I think I am growing more and more lazy is the underlying issue LOL.
So now I am in the preliminary phases of designing a major pond change. I have planting shelves that I don't want because the koi eat the plants I put on them. So I just want one deep pond with no shelves. I figure if I am going to go to that much work I should probably put in a bottom drain so I know longer have to net out the pond. But if I put in a bottom drain I need a vortex tank and a filter pit. It will be a lot of work to build but I am hoping it will reduce my pond maintenance from little to almost none LOL. I plan on continuing to grow more lazy.
It will be a few years and is just in the works.
Either way though I would not use a uv light or skimmer.
HARO
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I got the same one on sale last fall. Set it up in the spring.... PITA to keep cleaning out every few hours! Only had a 600 gph pump on it, but it would clog with plants, frogs, algae, anything BUT fish! Anyone want a used one?addy1 said:
John
Pecan,
That's a beautiful pond. Is it a sin to covet thy neighbors pond. lol. Hard to believe you don't have any mechanical filter. I have a lot to learn.
I'm surprised at the minimal amount of time that people are saying they are devote to cleaning. I was under the impression that without a skimmer or bottom drain that maintenance was a constant effort.
Still may put one, or both, in but I appreciate the education.
Thanks all.
P.S. It's finally staring to cool off here in FL so I may be starting soon.
That's a beautiful pond. Is it a sin to covet thy neighbors pond. lol. Hard to believe you don't have any mechanical filter. I have a lot to learn.
I'm surprised at the minimal amount of time that people are saying they are devote to cleaning. I was under the impression that without a skimmer or bottom drain that maintenance was a constant effort.
Still may put one, or both, in but I appreciate the education.
Thanks all.
P.S. It's finally staring to cool off here in FL so I may be starting soon.
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My pond gets very little care, bottom net now and then every other year or so, ow an occasional skimmer clean out about every 3 -4 wks
When the maple seeds are falling then it is evey other day or so. Leaf basket rinse off every 4 wks or so think I cleaned it twice this summer
A almost carefree pond can be built
When the maple seeds are falling then it is evey other day or so. Leaf basket rinse off every 4 wks or so think I cleaned it twice this summer
A almost carefree pond can be built
Addy do you get in your pond to net it out? That is my biggest complaint about mine is netting it out. It is only twice a year (spring/fall) but that is when the water is cold.