Do pond walls need reinforcing?

[Lisak1]

Also 'foaming' of the rock is an unnecessary chore and expense if the time is taken to properly set rock. The rock walls of a pond should be constructed similar to how dry-set garden walls are constructed.
You should be able to safely and confidently stand on it after it is completed.

Agree 100%. I've never understood why he foams them.. I wonder if he still does, or if that was an older technique?I haven't watched his videos in a while.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Agree 100%. I've never understood why he foams them.. I wonder if he still does, or if that was an older technique?I haven't watched his videos in a while.

I think that it is part of his sales pitch. I know Eric and he is without a doubt the ultimate promoter and marketer. In fact, it is the reason he was asked to be the moderator of my LinkedIn group Water Features Forum--Marketing/Promotion.

 

[Usman]

My pond is just over 2 feet underground with straight sides but I have no rocks in my pond at all ,they just get covered in muck and you loose the look of them .Liner gets covered in muck also so you don't see it after awhile either .Rocks in a pond never look like rocks in a natural area as those bodies of water get fresh water and movement of water all the time .So to me rocks end up looking the same as the bare liner after awhile .

yes i agree , the only rock that survives its natural look is semi submerged or close to surface or near running water which has tendency to b green too , there was a thread rock or no rock , mostly ppl voted for no rock from their terrible experiences but in this case he meant if they are needed to strengthen the wall

 

[Usman]

Should I Put Rocks in my Pond? -
http://sacramentokoi.com/should-i-put-rocks-in-my-pond/

 

[Lisak1]

there was a thread rock or no rock , mostly ppl voted for no rock from their terrible experiences

There have been MANY threads where people have debated yes or no on a rocked pond. None that I have seen where "mostly ppl voted for no rock" nor where they shared "terrible experiences". The article you linked is ineffective for two reasons:
1. As soon as you say "bottom drain" you eliminate the question. If you build a pond with a bottom drain, then you don't want to put any kind of rock or gravel on the bottom, obviously. But many many MANY ponds are built without a drain so the rock won't interfere with how the pond functions.
2. The article mentions rock trapping leaves and debris - when people talk about rock in the bottom of their pond, they aren't talking about big boulders on the floor of the pond. You add a shallow layer of gravel to the bottom which has the ability to trap ZERO leaves. I get in my pond all the time and stir up the gravel with my feet - no debris.

The other thing you ignore is that many pond builders believe that having rock in a pond is actually beneficial, apart from the aesthetics (which are a personal choice - some people like the look, others don't). The addition of rock and gravel in the pond adds surface area which allows aerobic bacteria to have additional surface to colonize and work to help keep your pond cleaner.

Sorry - don't want to hijack the thread, but I am a big proponent of sharing facts rather than myths and giving people the information they need to make their own choices. Repeating things over and over and over again can give them an air of credibility that they don't deserve. The science of pondkeeping has moved past the days when "rocks or no rocks" was a question with one single correct answer. If you go on a koi pond forum, you will find a consensus there that says absolutely no rocks in a pond - but again, they are building a whole different kind of pond with a whole different purpose in mind than your backyard garden eco-pond.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

There have been MANY threads where people have debated yes or no on a rocked pond. None that I have seen where "mostly ppl voted for no rock" nor where they shared "terrible experiences". The article you linked is ineffective for two reasons:
1. As soon as you say "bottom drain" you eliminate the question. If you build a pond with a bottom drain, then you don't want to put any kind of rock or gravel on the bottom, obviously. But many many MANY ponds are built without a drain so the rock won't interfere with how the pond functions.
2. The article mentions rock trapping leaves and debris - when people talk about rock in the bottom of their pond, they aren't talking about big boulders on the floor of the pond. You add a shallow layer of gravel to the bottom which has the ability to trap ZERO leaves. I get in my pond all the time and stir up the gravel with my feet - no debris.

The other thing you ignore is that many pond builders believe that having rock in a pond is actually beneficial, apart from the aesthetics (which are a personal choice - some people like the look, others don't). The addition of rock and gravel in the pond adds surface area which allows aerobic bacteria to have additional surface to colonize and work to help keep your pond cleaner.

Sorry - don't want to hijack the thread, but I am a big proponent of sharing facts rather than myths and giving people the information they need to make their own choices. Repeating things over and over and over again can give them an air of credibility that they don't deserve. The science of pondkeeping has moved past the days when "rocks or no rocks" was a question with one single correct answer. If you go on a koi pond forum, you will find a consensus there that says absolutely no rocks in a pond - but again, they are building a whole different kind of pond with a whole different purpose in mind than your backyard garden eco-pond.

Well said!

 

[sissy]

I don't have rocks at all and don't miss them but respect people who want them .It is a choice you will have to decide on .Liner gets covered in muck so you can't really tell if they are there or not .

 

[Lisak1]

Liner gets covered in muck so you can't really tell if they are there or not .

I'll agree with you that it's a personal choice, but I'll disagree that you can't see the rocks and gravel. I've posted the picture before of my pond looking straight down - you can see every rock, every stone. I can pick out individual stones that we've picked up at Lake Michigan and brought home and tossed in the pond. The rocks on the side grow algae, but it changes all the time, which is cool too. And they definitely add contour and dimension to the pond that you won't have without rocks. Plus the rocks allowed me to build "steps" to make it easy and safe for me - or anyone or thing else that ends up in the pond - to climb out.

 

[Usman]

There have been MANY threads where people have debated yes or no on a rocked pond. None that I have seen where "mostly ppl voted for no rock" nor where they shared "terrible experiences". The article you linked is ineffective for two reasons:
1. As soon as you say "bottom drain" you eliminate the question. If you build a pond with a bottom drain, then you don't want to put any kind of rock or gravel on the bottom, obviously. But many many MANY ponds are built without a drain so the rock won't interfere with how the pond functions.
2. The article mentions rock trapping leaves and debris - when people talk about rock in the bottom of their pond, they aren't talking about big boulders on the floor of the pond. You add a shallow layer of gravel to the bottom which has the ability to trap ZERO leaves. I get in my pond all the time and stir up the gravel with my feet - no debris.

The other thing you ignore is that many pond builders believe that having rock in a pond is actually beneficial, apart from the aesthetics (which are a personal choice - some people like the look, others don't). The addition of rock and gravel in the pond adds surface area which allows aerobic bacteria to have additional surface to colonize and work to help keep your pond cleaner.

Sorry - don't want to hijack the thread, but I am a big proponent of sharing facts rather than myths and giving people the information they need to make their own choices. Repeating things over and over and over again can give them an air of credibility that they don't deserve. The science of pondkeeping has moved past the days when "rocks or no rocks" was a question with one single correct answer. If you go on a koi pond forum, you will find a consensus there that says absolutely no rocks in a pond - but again, they are building a whole different kind of pond with a whole different purpose in mind than your backyard garden eco-pond.

thnx yes ma'am i get ur intention i read ur valuable advise now i want to say some points too , my english is not that good so in dictionary i rechecked rock means larger piece , it doesnot mean gravel , when people say rock they mean some thing bigger then gravel like stones or pebbles or bigger river rocks in clips or articles , gravel means smaller pieces

but even if gravel pebbles or stones they r not recommended either for these reasons mainly what i researched learnt by others and experienced , it gets black mucky and traps gasses bad bacteria... rots in bottom which is harmful and hard to clean if its small , its said that any irregular corners should b avoid as it can catch debris , if for cosmetic purpose , it rarely stays same , it gets covered with algae if u have good sun or with dust , they have some other issues too thats why true koi pond should not have rocks as standard i heard from mayyer too

it doesnot have much good bacteria effective for bio filter since its deep down has no oxygen or flow more then a feet or so , unless u create under gravel flow , i agree every one has there own choices circumstances i just saw ur pond i think its stream type water flowing from one end to another may b u have good strong flow and filtration or shallower pond that keeps it clean .

usualy this happens in majority of cases most of the vids u will see they add rocks for decorating but ask them after few months its hard to maintain but rocks can b added if with wisdom and keeping in mind ur circumstances and by testing how it goes , i my self have rocks and gravel but i have learnt from experience at which place and height is best avoid deep bottom and where water has no flow . just telling cons pros doesnt mean some thing is rite or wrong but in most cases how it is

u can read ppls experiences more and articles of experts and decide

Rocks in the bottom of a pond | Garden Pond Forums
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/rocks-in-the-bottom-of-a-pond.4127/


Gravel & rock can create a stagnation zone in your pond
http://watergarden.com/pages/gravel-rock.html

The effects of River rock on the bottom of pond.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1598049/the-effects-of-river-rock-on-the-bottom-of-pond

Rocks - Never put rocks in your pond..Aqua Art Pond Supplies
http://www.aquaart.com/Solutions-Rocks.html

Why you should not put rocks in the bottom of your pond. - YouTube

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Rocks in the bottom of a pond | Garden Pond Forums
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/rocks-in-the-bottom-of-a-pond.4127/


Gravel & rock can create a stagnation zone in your pond
http://watergarden.com/pages/gravel-rock.html

The effects of River rock on the bottom of pond.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1598049/the-effects-of-river-rock-on-the-bottom-of-pond

Rocks - Never put rocks in your pond..Aqua Art Pond Supplies
http://www.aquaart.com/Solutions-Rocks.html

Why you should not put rocks in the bottom of your pond. - YouTube

What I see in all of these links is anecdotal information, opinions, and some downright pseudo-science. Not one scientific research citation to support the anti-rock/gravel view.

 

[sissy]

Thing is climate also adds to what grows in the bottom of the pond and how it will cover the liner and rocks .Longer growing season means more muck on everything because fish won't have time to eat it all .I have a longer growing season so fish don't eat much muck over the winter and i can tell that after rebuilding my pond 2 times in Feb. and March and muck is growing fast on the new liner .It is mostly covered because of the warm weather we have had .Athin layer but if this weather keeps up it will be all covered in a thick layer .The warmer the weather the more time it has to grow without being eaten

 

[Lisak1]

thats why true koi pond should not have rocks

I agree with that statement - if I had a dedicated koi pond, I would avoid gravel on the bottom of my pond.

And you are correct - there is a huge difference between a shallow layer of gravel and large rocks in the bottom of the pond. If you have anything in the bottom, you should be able to stir it around with ease to get any organic material that might be collecting at the bottom back into the water column to get filtered out.

Also - check the dates on your links. Some of these are seven or more years old. Like any other school of thought, ideas evolve and change over time. What was once considered a standard practice can be re-examined and re-interpreted.

Again, I have no intent to hijack this thread - I just know that many people (like you @Usman ) find these threads that refer to rocks in a pond. Sharing both sides of the issue can help dispel myths that make it appear there is only one "right way" to build a pond.

 

[carolinaguy]

All the ponds we have built have 4 inch block concrete sides walls to get at least 3 feet of vertical depth to help in blue heron defense and prevent cave ins. But then I tend to overbuild for safety. Then We curve the bottom with a 30 degree slope to help move waste to the bottom drains.

As for rocks, there are seven different pond types and each has specific measurement characteristics to keep koi healthy. An aquascapes style pond with rock and no bottom drain is just one style with its own set of good and bad characteristics. My big problem with rocks has to do with koi behavior in mating season. Females get beat up badly without rocks and get badly lacerated when slammed against them by an aggressive male. Depends on how expensive your fish are as to whether or not to chance the damage. Then there is the cleaning problem with an aquascapes style pond. It can get expensive to clean. Our pond is a display style with a rubber liner, skimmer and bottom drains. Easier to maintain but not necessarily the natural look.

 

[Lisak1]

Then there is the cleaning problem with an aquascapes style pond. It can get expensive to clean

I'm assuming you mean if you choose to have your pond professionally cleaned. Which I would never recommend, but I know lots of people like to do it. The pond cleaning videos you see on YouTube make me cringe - all that good biofilm being destroyed. Basically a new pond start up every single year. But for some people the look of sparkling clean rocks is more important than a healthy, thriving pond. Some people who hire out their pond maintenance even lease their fish. They remove them from the pond for the winter and get new ones in the spring... not my idea of pond keeping, but to each their own! For those folks it's more of a decoration than a hobby. And I figure the money made from regular pond maintenance helps keep many pond builders in business - building a pond may be a one or two time transaction. Pond clean outs and shut downs can add two more income sources per year.

 

[carolinaguy]

I'm assuming you mean if you choose to have your pond professionally cleaned. Which I would never recommend, but I know lots of people like to do it. The pond cleaning videos you see on YouTube make me cringe - all that good biofilm being destroyed. Basically a new pond start up every single year. But for some people the look of sparkling clean rocks is more important than a healthy, thriving pond. Some people who hire out their pond maintenance even lease their fish. They remove them from the pond for the winter and get new ones in the spring... not my idea of pond keeping, but to each their own! For those folks it's more of a decoration than a hobby. And I figure the money made from regular pond maintenance helps keep many pond builders in business - building a pond may be a one or two time transaction. Pond clean outs and shut downs can add two more income sources per year.

Agreed. A member of our koi club is an aquascapes builder, and I think he charges as much as a couple thousand dollars to clean out a large, 10000 gallon, pond every two or three years. He brings in a water truck, pumps, and a three man team to remove water and the rock bed, gravel filter, and decorative stones to get at the muck. No tanks.