Do pond walls need reinforcing?

[Johnrrr]

I am wondering if there is any rules for how deep a pond can be built without reinforcing the pond walls?

At what point should one be concerned with the walls not being able to support themselves and collapse.

I know there are variables but assuming undisturbed clay soil. Can a pond be built in-ground with vertical walls of 18 inches be safe to assume can hold up with just the water of the pond? or should there be shallower shelves on the sides to help support the walls.

Maybe an angle backwards like a bowl shape can allow it to be more resistible to erosion.

John

 

[Usman]

hi what type of pond is it , of linner or cement?

 

[sissy]

It all can depend on the ground under it and how high you are going and what kind of wall you are talking about ,concrete block or retaining wall block in solid or open and if you use rebar or cement or both .Like said is this going to have a liner .My wall on my pond is 3 block high and is filled with heavy clay here and has rebar in it and it is around half underground and about half above and then has another outside wall of retaining wall block with insulation in between and marble rocks covering that .So it is a wall with in a wall on 2 sides .I have seen some really nice above ground ponds on here and only thing is you have to see how you will look at the fish from where you may be sitting or viewing the pond

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I am wondering if there is any rules for how deep a pond can be built without reinforcing the pond walls?

At what point should one be concerned with the walls not being able to support themselves and collapse.

I know there are variables but assuming undisturbed clay soil. Can a pond be built in-ground with vertical walls of 18 inches be safe to assume can hold up with just the water of the pond? or should there be shallower shelves on the sides to help support the walls.

Maybe an angle backwards like a bowl shape can allow it to be more resistible to erosion.

John

I am assuming that you are referring to the use of just liner. In that case, i wold not recommend that any wall of any height be vertical. An angle of 15 - 20 degrees from the vertical will offer satisfactory protection from any structural collapse

 

[Johnrrr]

Yes just a liner in the ground. I was watching youtube and see how Ponddigger uses large rocks and boulders inside the pond liner on the walls and uses smaller river rocks on the horizontal surfaces and was wondering if it is for structural or cosmetic purposes or both. One wall was quite vertical.

Meyer - pretty much answered my question – use an appropriate angle and it should hold up.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I was watching youtube and see how Ponddigger uses large rocks and boulders inside the pond liner on the walls and uses smaller river rocks on the horizontal surfaces and was wondering if it is for structural or cosmetic purposes or both.

Speaking from a contractor's point of view. Large rocks are-
1. Easier to stack and stabilize.
2. It takes less time to cover a wall with large rock than with small.
3. They are visibly more noticeable (aesthetics) even after they get a good coating of periphyton.

 

[sissy]

The walls on my pond are straight you can see it in my rebuild .The water holds it against the ground .Are you talking about an above ground pond or below ground .The weight of the water holds it against the wall of the pond ,no rocks needed for that

 

[Johnrrr]

Sissy, 100% in the ground, what is the depth of your walls?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I am assuming that you are referring to the use of just liner. In that case, i wold not recommend that any wall of any height be vertical. An angle of 15 - 20 degrees from the vertical will offer satisfactory protection from any structural collapse

I would like to clarify and expand on this previous post of mine.
This angle of slope will suffice providing pond depth does not exceed 4 feet. As depth increases this angle should also increase. OSHA stipulates that for depths up to 8 feet this angle should be at least 30 degrees from vertical.
These aforementioned angles also assume that this excavation is in fairly compacted and undisturbed soil. All other soils will likely require a larger angle.

 

[Usman]

i didnt know if u asked about liner , i had some walls straight in pond over 2 feet they do well doesn't collapse , the pressure of water is alot it can never fall unless any abnormal activity.... but i learnt more advantage with steps or slope angle if u dont have issue of space , the edges are more stable wont break if rain or some one stands , easier to make border , easier to grow semi sub plants , easier to decorate stones inside pond , adds buffer for jumping fishes , more surface area for air and bacteria , algae catches more sun for fish grazing , good for wild life shallow shelf, more safe for kids and feels comfy if its in ur garden compared to straight deep . if u have heron then you can have steep straighter

 

[Usman]

Yes just a liner in the ground. I was watching youtube and see how Ponddigger uses large rocks and boulders inside the pond liner on the walls and uses smaller river rocks on the horizontal surfaces and was wondering if it is for structural or cosmetic purposes or both. One wall was quite vertical.

Meyer - pretty much answered my question – use an appropriate angle and it should hold up.

avoid large rocks boulders ...i saw that too but they used very thick liner and special care , machines plus extra padding , we have seen many cases it can puncture liner if not experienced , its not needed , they did for decor & habitat .

 

[Lisak1]

Boulders used to rock a pond won't puncture a liner - you use round, smooth rocks for that purpose. In fact many people will tell you that rock will protest your liner from being accidentally punctured as well as damage from sun exposure. Personal choice, but I prefer a rocked pond.

The ponddigger foams his rocks in place which makes those near vertical walls more stable. An angled wall is easier to rock I think, as well as requiring nothing to hold it in place.

 

[Usman]

Boulders used to rock a pond won't puncture a liner - you use round, smooth rocks for that purpose. In fact many people will tell you that rock will protest your liner from being accidentally punctured as well as damage from sun exposure. Personal choice, but I prefer a rocked pond.

The ponddigger foams his rocks in place which makes those near vertical walls more stable. An angled wall is easier to rock I think, as well as requiring nothing to hold it in place.

i was reading this few days ago on same forum he ripped linner from rock https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/bad-news-i-think-i-ripped-my-liner.2325/

i remember ponddiggers did mistake too installing boulder they had puncture

if its very heavy doesnot mater how smooth it is , if any error or smallest gravel came in between or slide ,m it can harm , i just mean if they know what they r doing its good to b cautious if some one is doing 1st time

 

[Meyer Jordan]

i was reading this few days ago on same forum he ripped linner from rock https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/bad-news-i-think-i-ripped-my-liner.2325/

i remember ponddiggers did mistake too installing boulder they had puncture

if its very heavy doesnot mater how smooth it is , if any error or smallest gravel came in between or slide ,m it can harm , i just mean if they know what they r doing its good to b cautious if some one is doing 1st time

Any 'Hand-set' rock will not puncture 45 mil EPDM.

Also 'foaming' of the rock is an unnecessary chore and expense if the time is taken to properly set rock. The rock walls of a pond should be constructed similar to how dry-set garden walls are constructed.
You should be able to safely and confidently stand on it after it is completed.

 

[sissy]

My pond is just over 2 feet underground with straight sides but I have no rocks in my pond at all ,they just get covered in muck and you loose the look of them .Liner gets covered in muck also so you don't see it after awhile either .Rocks in a pond never look like rocks in a natural area as those bodies of water get fresh water and movement of water all the time .So to me rocks end up looking the same as the bare liner after awhile .