Edge cracks

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So, in 2016 we had the patio redone with pavers. The tourists who did the work (for the lack of a better term) partially emptied the pond at the time, and they sent their mortar specialist to smooth and redo the edges of the in-ground pond. The chemical products in the mortar caused contamination of the water and in a matter of days killed the dozen (relatively small) koi fish that lived there. We repopulated the pond with goldfish.

Fast forward years later and I am seeing cracks appear on the edges.

Is it time for a drastic solution like transfer the fish & plants elsewhere, empty the whole pond then fill it with liner, or wait and see until it gets worse? Any leak could potentially infiltrate below the pavers and create even more settlement problems etc.

I could drop the water level a bit to remain below the cracks, however in winter when it rains the water level will get somewhere up to 1" below this edge (the long edges are not even at the same exact elevation so the water reaches one long edge first).

That is the same edge where I am planning to lay my bog filter on top of the pavers, a rectangular basin which will contain about 1400 lbs of gravel and more for water. The load will be spread over 10 feet, but still...

Any thoughts?
 

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It Appears the coping pavers have probably seen a better day but it's hard to tell as it looks like the concrete is Spalding as well below the pavers. It doesn't look hard to pop up all the coping install fabric and epdm and replace the coping stones or get maybe a nice lime stone or blue stone.
 
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now that im looking from my pc and not a phone it looks like the tourist try to put a cap and the end of your pavers to bring it out flush with the wall to the pond.

a better way of doing this but is also a bit more work is to cut the existing pavers back say six and a half inches and remove them and install a 8 inch paver so you end up with a 1 1/2" overhang. you can then have the seam between the pond wall and the coping caulked with a butyl caulk the way most ponds are built . the over hang will conceal the seam and the difference in plain which has a tendency to crack will have a flexible caulking doing the job and not concrete. now all loose material will need to be removed and patched .
 
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like the tourist try to put a cap and the end of your pavers to bring it out flush with the wall to the pond.
Yuppers :confused:

it looks like the concrete is Spalding
Aw, great, my scalp is balding and my concrete is spalding... :unsure:

Either way, I am in trouble. I do nothing and it gets worse, or I am out a bunch of $$$ to hire a non-tourist guy to do the job properly. Can your proposal be done without removing all the water, just lowering the water level enough to work on top part?

I just learned a new word today: "coping", thanks :)
 
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it's the glazer that would answer that question , either way he's either standing on a sloped wall in the deep end or will be hanging over the edge. or you remove the coping stone throw in a fabric layer and a liner. and i would go epdm
 
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How about this product? Does it have any chance of stabilizing hairline cracks?

https://www.oatey.com/2373255/Product/Oatey-Fix-It-Stick-Epoxy-Putty
that dries hard as a rock exactly what you don't want. the reason you have those cracks is because you have two different plains . a horizontal to a vertical with two similar but different products. They expand and contract slightly different from one another. and thus the crack . to water proof it you are better off with a flexible material / caulk

Will it stop water for a time sure. Is it a fix i'd use if i was hired to solve the problem... no way
 
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Okay thanks for all the information - so it looks like yes I could find some kind of flexible seal product, but further cracks may appear later on and I still wouldn't know unless the pond starts leaking (there is no sign that it is leaking at this time, though I don't trust this will last).

Thus best course of action would probably be to empty the pond, move plants and fish to temporary containers / fish tank, remove the coping pavers all around, pour a raised concrete edge (with rebars) all around the pond along with an overflow drain, seal concrete edge with vertical wall using mortar or some other product. Maybe seal some hairline cracks.

If I put an EPDM pond liner then I woudn't have to worry too much about the cracks in that case?
 
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When selecting a sealer take into consideration future repairs. It may be difficult to seal over many paints and epoxies.
 
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Okay thanks for all the information - so it looks like yes I could find some kind of flexible seal product, but further cracks may appear later on and I still wouldn't know unless the pond starts leaking (there is no sign that it is leaking at this time, though I don't trust this will last).

Thus best course of action would probably be to empty the pond, move plants and fish to temporary containers / fish tank, remove the coping pavers all around, pour a raised concrete edge (with rebars) all around the pond along with an overflow drain, seal concrete edge with vertical wall using mortar or some other product. Maybe seal some hairline cracks.

If I put an EPDM pond liner then I wouldn't- have to worry too much about the cracks in that case?
IF YOU USED A UNDERLAYMENT over that area between the cracks and the liner then it should have no worries what so ever. i would secure the epdm under the coping with a termination strip . this will pinch the liner and hold it in place. then replace or install the new coping
 
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Ok, here are the 2 possible options I am thinking, feel free to criticize it if it makes no sense :sneaky:

1. use cinder / concrete blocks to rebuild an inner wall (yes, this will shrink the pond size a bit - I see ACE hardware has blocks that are 4 inch wide only)
2. pour, or hire somebody to pour, a reinforced inner concrete wall, about 4 inches thick (same issue here, it shrinks the pond by 4 inches each side, but that is acceptable to me).

Once that is done, use underlayment and EPDM liner on top of the concrete (with termination strips or held in place by coping, tbd). With that extra wall, the older wall behind it and cracked mortar should be safe.
 
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What is the inner wall for a shelf for plants ?
Not reading the entire post again I'm assuming you have a swimming pool and you want to create shelves. Instead of spending a small fortune on concrete and fill . Where the coping and top are already compromised why not cut the edge down where you would like shelves.

If your putting in a liner epdm then it will wTer proof what ever shape you come up with.

While making a swimming pool smaller is not a issue the higher the volume the less chance the water will fluctuate. But also the more maintenance.

I have a relatively good size pond and trying to catch a fish was IMPOSSIBLE untill I made a swimout sorta speak and I could trap them that way.
 
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Well I am not planning to add shelves. I have 2 concerns (see picture below):

1) cracks developing on mortar edge, not leaking at this time (yet)

2) bog filter will rest on edge near the cracks (see frame below which is the base)

1654919782196.png


I could just patch the cracks and use underlayment + EPDM liner. I am still concerned about the area where the bog filter will be resting (currently pavers of various sizes, 12" x 12", or 6" x 12", also installed by the tourist who redid the patio, and are all but level). Maybe I should remove these pavers and pour a reinforced concrete slab... Ugh.
 
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Yes you can place a heavy duty underlayment over the cracks and then install a liner . bUT YOU HAVE A CADILAC WITH A CONCRETE POOL. The pool has some age and one of the first points to fail has, the coping.

Will the underlayment hold the cracks from falling into the pool and damaging the liner? i'd say it's a pretty safe bet.

But this is what i see from your limited picture. the coping has failed where it meets the vertical wall. The mortar has popped YOUR TOURIST tried to put a cap over the crack well the crack is the coping stone is no longer bonded to the pool. so caping over that point would work for a time but the coping is still loose underneath.

The deck seems to run right to the pool there's no higher edge so run off is allowed to enter the pond. If you want to do this right again this is based on 45 years experience with concrete, and a single photo. I would saw cut your 24" CONCRETE coping to the size of a standard coping cool deck concrete stone. "I would also hire a pool company to do this work if i was you. " The new coping should have a rounded edge that will divert water from entering the pool. They will also have the proper sealant to keep your cracks from coming back in a year.

if you really want a more natural look you could at using stone as the new coping but that's going to be a bit more expensive as the cuts to the deck will have to mirror the stone . But when it's done will look a whole lot more natural then a concrete edging.

They may find some concrete at the top of the pools wall that is loose and will need to be removed but from what i can see it looks minimal or you'd have more cracks. they need a solid base to bond to, that's where the tourist failed .

you also keep your water a bit high dropping it even an inch would help.

can you cover the whole pond with the liner yes but you'll never have as smooth a wall as you do now. i doubt rocking the pool/pond will be an option. not and easy one anyways.

Replace the coping and paint the pools walls with a black or a deep blue what ever looks best to you.
 

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