Equipment Homework

[raoke]

Hello everyone

I'm doing some homework for my brother who is looking to complete his pond project.

He did some of his own research for equipment but the total came out to be about $3,000 for a sand filter, pump, and uv.

Although I'm not familiar with current products and prices, I do think that I could find something either a lot better for the price or something just as capable but less expensive.

The pond is 12x7x4 as the title states and is made of concrete. I'm not sure if we need some sort of epoxy liner to paint the inside so confirmation would be great!

The pond is equipped with 2 bottom drains and a surface skimmer along with a built in water fall (aesthetic only) and 2 other inputs to the pond.

We are looking for energy efficient equipment that will keep the water looking crystal clear. I know my brother was thinking of spending $3000 but I'm hoping we can accomplish or goal with less expense.

Thanks! Oh, and I will get some pictures to share asap

 

[koiguy1969]

LOSE THE SAND FILTER!!....o.k for pools, not ponds.except water polishing (due to clogging easily, and little biological help ) a U.V is fine. look in our DIY section for some filters that will out poerform any of the storeboughts anywhere near the price...

 

[raoke]

Doing some quick research I guess pond equipment IS really that expensive!

I did read about the sand filter and you are right about them clogging. They do have glass filters which seem to alleviate the problems.

I will look into the DIY section, but with the limited space and thoroughness of a kit, I think it will be difficult to go that route.

My brother prefers to be able to set it and just maintain. No tinkering with anything such as DIY- but I will take a look and see- you never know

 

[Otter]

Koiguy is right about the sand filter, unless you mean a DIY sand & gravel filter.
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68132

Here are a few questions, be prepared for more.

Is the shell of the pond already built?

Did your brother add waterproofing to the concrete mix?

How does he feel about building his own filters?

How much room does he have for them?

Will the pumps be submersible, external, or both?

Are the drains aerated?

How many of what kind of fish does he intend to keep?

How severe are your winters?

Will he do frequent water changes, or would the local water police shoot first and not bother to ask questions, except maybe, "Hey, are carp good to eat?"

 

[raoke]

After taking a quick look, I would have to say that because of the way the pond is setup, we would probably only be able to use a pressurized system.

The waterfall my brother had bought and installed into the cement when the pond was built requires pressure as well as the 2 returns.

However, never say never... I guess we could utilize a DIY method if 2 pumps are used. One to draw in the water from the 3 sources, and another to sent it back into the pond. I guess this would be feasible, but potential issues trying to sync up the two pumps to flow in unison have me doubting the reliability of this setup.

 

[raoke]

Is the shell of the pond already built?

Did your brother add waterproofing to the concrete mix?

How does he feel about building his own filters?

How much room does he have for them?

Will the pumps be submersible, external, or both?

Are the drains aerated?

How many of what kind of fish does he intend to keep?

How severe are your winters?

Will he do frequent water changes, or would the local water police shoot first and not bother to ask questions, except maybe, "Hey, are carp good to eat?"

The pond is built.

I think we may need to purchase some sort of paint on epoxy coat.
-What is a good brand/source for this?

Not sure, but I can convince him if it's more efficient and easy to maintain.
I don't think he want's to constantly be tinkering with anything.

The filter area is behind the pond. Sorry for my rudimentary analogy but I'd say you can fit 2 1/2 love seats in the area. The pond is 4 feet deep but 2 feet is above ground.

External pumps

Aerated drains? Can you clarify.

Koi- Not sure how many. The plan is to buy a few small and watch them grow.

We live in Southern California Surfing in the morning and snowboarding later in the day.

Knowing my brother I think he will do what is necessary for the well being of the fish and to keep the water clean and clear. I think he likes the pressurized filtration system because of the backwash capability. He can then recycle the pond water and water his garden.

Thank you for the quick reply!

 

[DrDave]

Welcome Raoke to the forum. Please go to the UserCP and add your location so folks can better help you.

 

[Otter]

The pond is built.

I think we may need to purchase some sort of paint on epoxy coat.
-What is a good brand/source for this?

Is it poured concrete, block, shotcrete, or gunnite? All the sealers except polyurea, which is very expensive, seem to be problematic on block.

I've heard good things about Pond Armor's Pond Shield epoxy.
http://www.pondarmor.com/faq.htm
http://www.pondarmor.com/store/index.htm

Herco neoprene rubber is another option that seems to work
http://www.hechtrubber.com/Pages/FishPondCoatings.htm

Liquid EDPM is interesting, but I haven't seen very many reports yet.
http://www.epdmcoatings.com/

Xypex makes a coating with similar properties to their concrete waterproofing additive.

I'd stay away from Sanitred. I've seen some posts from people who had no end of trouble with this stuff. Also, in at least one case, Sanitred's rep seemed more interested in shifting blame to the user than solving the problem.

Not sure, but I can convince him if it's more efficient and easy to maintain.
I don't think he want's to constantly be tinkering with anything.

Some the DIY options are not only cheaper, but are easier to operate and offer better performance than most factory filters. The main reason for this, I think, is the cost of making and shipping large heavy-duty plastic containers. DIYers get used 55 gallon soap barrels from the car wash for free, or 300 gallon totes for free or for cheap at some factories and food processing plants. Or they build filters with concrete and/or liner. There's just no way for commercial units to compete with low-cost size.

External pumps.

I'd definitely give sequence a look. This site has both cut-throat pricing and great customer service.
http://www.highdesertkoi.com/pumps.htm

Aerated drains? Can you clarify.

Some bottom drains have an air diffuser in the dome. This creates a toroidal "doughnut current" that helps sweep debris into the drains.

We live in Southern California Surfing in the morning and snowboarding later in the day.

If you're not up in snowboarding country, you probably ought to give shower filters a look. These are biofilters only, but are low-maintenance and offer good performance. Of particular interest is their ability to reduce nitrate.

Knowing my brother I think he will do what is necessary for the well being of the fish and to keep the water clean and clear. I think he likes the pressurized filtration system because of the backwash capability. He can then recycle the pond water and water his garden.

Definitely take a look at the sand and gravel filter, then. Instead of backflushing, you close off the pipe to the pond and blow air through the filter in the direction of flow. This fluidizes the media and releases the debris that has been trapped. Water then carries it out a higher outlet to the garden. Once the water runs clear, just open the channel to the pond again. One 55 gallon drum is good for about 2000gph. And unlike many factor pressure filters, it doesn't generate very much head.

If your brother can find about 30 square feet, consider an anoxic filter pond. Because this filter is still relatively new, and clear information on how it works is surprisingly difficult to get, I'd suggest a fallback plan to one of the more traditional filtration methods. So far, though, nearly all the reports I've seen have been very positive. Like the shower, this filter can also get rid of nitrate, however, it does so in a completely different way. The filter is also a settlement chamber, and hence you can water and fertilize the garden with this one too.
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94835

 

[DrDave]

Otter
Please go to the UserCP and add your location.
A lot of research went into your last post!

 

[DoDad]

By seeing your price on a sand filter it looks like a swimming pool filter.
They are not made for ponds
there are diy sand filters on the net but remember these are not bio filters.

 

[raoke]

Thank you for the replies!

As I read, sand filters are only used towards the end of the filtration process and I would still need some sort of biological filtration.

I will definitely look into the DIY systems as saving money and building things ourselves is always a fun and good alternative.

The only issue I can think of is how to return the water to the pond as we can not do it via gravity.

---

The pond is cement poured and all the piping is either underground or within the concrete for a clean look. The drains and returns are all routed to the back of the pond.

The shape is in a rectangle with the back wall raised about 2 feet higher where the waterfall was installed into the concrete.

---

I will get pictures up within the next day.

My brother is coming back from vacation today and I will discuss with him the new options you all have revealed to me.

If anything, we may just wait on the equipment as I just found out a huge convention will be coming up locally.

 

[koikeepr]

if the piping in underground, that is gravity....

 

[raoke]

It could be gravity fed if the filtration system was underground and lower than the drains, but because the piping comes back up behind the pond gravity wouldn't work.

I guess if we dig up the gravel laid down we can do something underground which may be an option, but thinking about it I don't think my brother will want to dig up the landscape we already finalized.

 

[JustMe]

Please someone speak up if I'm saying this wrong. I'm having similar issues,...I've always had a gravity fed skippy type filter (LOVE THEM),.but now I'm building a much larger pond so I'm questioning the placement of pumps and filters and trying to keep everything out of the pond if I can.
Gravity will work to anything lower than the water level,....even if it's burried under dirt, and going up hill,....for instance in the drawing I have, gravity alone should fill through the pre filter and to the water line of the skippy,...now I will have a pump going back to the pond with filtered water,.but up to the water line in the skippy is by gravity,......

 

[raoke]

JustMe - That setup you attached will work and it is out of the pond. What is your question?