Give me feedback on this set up

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Okay, here is my possible plan, would this work?

Goldfish/watergarden pond with bottom drain about 1200 gallons. Upper bog/waterfall pond around 100 gallons. I will run the bottom drain to a settlement/seive tank. External pump is 2400 gph. Skimmer and bottom drain to seive to pump to bog/veggie waterfall filter and back to pond. Bog will have a drain that will run along my garage to the alley that has a drain. Will this work? Where do I put valves? Easy way to make a little pit for my pump so it stays dry? Any other suggestions?

I was going to go with a skippy filter but as a gardener think I would like the bog better but is this enough filtration if I also have a bottom drain, seive and skimmer?
 

addy1

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Use the water from your bog to water your plants when you back wash it, they love the stuff.

I have found that you don't need to clean them very often if sized right. My set up is bog only, some have both.
 

fishin4cars

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Evesta, I see some things you have done your homework on but I see some issues as well. This is from personal experience First off, The bog garden, The bog garden itself with no filter and as a waterfall is not a great idea, first off the water will run past the plants faster than they can filter. Good plant filtering is best done with slow water movement. Not that it can't be done, Good plant filters are plants like anachris, hornwort, lettuce, hyacinths, and parrot feather just to name a few, most will grow with roots being exposed in the water column, lilies, marginal plants, and bog plants that grow above the water and the roots grow deep don't do as well for filtering but will do some. But what you are trying to do will work to a great degree, simply split off the primary flow of water to a primary waterfall and divert with a valve a line to the bog garden and slow the water down passing thru it. I would recommend about 1/4 or slightly less of your total pumping capacity.(2400gph = 600 gph thru the plant filter) The rest going to the primary water fall.
Placing valves is a little trickier because different scenarios require different placement of valves, In your case I'll simply say I would put one before and after the pump WITH quick disconnects! This will greatly reduce headaches when you need to replace pump! And you will need to sooner or later. Also with having a valve before and after it makes adding a Tee later to divert water a lot more simple. Now plumb your lines to what you need water to go to, the valves for them to me the closer the better in my opinion when you can. Also for your drain/ dump valve, make sure it is at the lowest spot in the piping system so you can clear the lines out of settlement when you need to work on bog garden, or waterfall etc This can be tied in also with the valve coming from a seperator from the bottom drain. Last but not least. Look for the best place to put/hide a filter box,UV light, (I'm not saying get one at this point but it is far easier to plumb in a Tee and valve for later use just in case!) Put that valve facing in the direction of the optional filter UV light location that would best work and is in line with the pump. I would rather plumb with the thought ahead of what I might need and get them in place on the install. Installing valves after the initial install can really be a pain if your already landscaped and no room to maneuver piping. I would recommend really investing in a filter fall unit, for the money it's relatively cheap, very efficient and makes starting a water fall A LOT more easier to start with!
I use the filter falls with biol balls and three different grades of Matala filter, and Matala course pre filter in my skimmer box, no bottom drain but I assure you the next KOI pond will!!! I have a lotus planted in a 50 gallon tub and and pump 1/4 of my ponds return water over it and into a Planted only 300 gallon pond which then waterfalls over into the primary pond. 1/4 of my return is piped so it pushes water from the far end of the pond to the skimmer, 1/2 of my water is returned through the filter fall filter and down a 25' stream waterfall. My 15 watt UV light is plumbed into the return line going to the lotus and plant area, the other 15watt UV light is in my savio skimmer, That is not the best place or idea in my opinion but that is the way Savio sells it and it does work to some extent.
 

addy1

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My bog filter is pea gravel with plants, the water flows through slowly due to the size of it. I reread her post and now see it is a filter with plants, not a pea gravel bog filter, sorry
 
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Do you mean both as in put plants in the skippy or do both seperate? My space is very limited due to my sight being sandwiched between fence, deck, garage with trees and sidewalk. The pond will be around 8X8 max. The upper pond, either liner or will be my 110 gallon stock tank which barely squeezes into the corner. I like the idea of an upper mini pond where the falls come from. The ground is higher next to the garage because the garage is partially sunk into the side of the yard. There will be some room off to the side for my pump(near the trees) and small seive but it will be tight, which is why I will probably get a seive instead of settlement tank because room is tight. All of this area is in a corner, some of it behind the trees and next to the garage where I will run my electric to.

Thanks for all the advice on valves and such. I agree the fernco rubber things make life easier I found with my last pond;) I will get a UV but probably not this year. I do actually have one but it is in a little pressurized filter I don't know if I can use. I used it before and it really slows flow down. I might sell it or use it on a stock tank pond or something.

thanks all!
 

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Russell watergarden hydrosieve. I like how small it is and looks easy to clean out. It is a bit of a splurge but I really am only buying a liner, bottom drain and this for this build, pretty much have everything else. I have an oase skimmer, pondmaster xseries 2450, savio waterfall weir(not sure if I wil use it), and lots of flex pvc. I would really like to buy one of their waterfall filters or a savio living ponds filter but will probably have to make due with my stock tank or upper pond, at least for now;) It is probably overkill for a watergarden/goldfish pond but my last pond build helped me figure out what I really want from this pond, even if it is smaller.
 

fishin4cars

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With that pic I can see what you mean about the limited space. I would recommend slowing the water down going to the bog some, even if you use a water fall with it, One option is just to simply divert part of the water directly back to the pond.
 
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I was thinking the same thing about another return either a smaller waterfall or fountain. I messed around with photoshop and here is the plan. Not sure if I would bring the skimmer line in before sieve or after? Any other suggestions? Thanks!
 

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fishin4cars

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Concerned about the tree, Going to be a hassle keeping leaves out in the fall, More worried about the roots pushing the liner from the outside and causing issues later on with the water fall and bog garden. may not be bad as I can't tell what kind of tree it is but do take extra precautions with GOOD quality underlayment exspecially on that side. There is always leaf netting that can be used to help with the leaf issue.
As I was saying earlier, back up tee and valve on the back side ( possibly behind the bog garden will leave your options for later. The option would then be open to put a nice fountain, spitter, UV diversion etc. It can always be figured out later what you wanted to do but there when you need it.
Suggestion, put about a 2'-18" deep plant shelf on the side of the waterfall/bog garden toward the fence side. It would give you the option for a TALL marginal plant to help blend in the fence, bog garden, and side. I'm thinking a Thalia, or a cyprus. I would think a 2' x 2' shelf there would give you a good shelf for a fairly large plant that would really add to the back drop. I like how you photoshopped your pic, that gives so much added input to this side.
 

fishin4cars

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How are you planning for pond overflow when it rains and over fills the pond? Also think about where the water is going to go when it rains so as not to wash into the pond.

I would suggest on the front plant shelf going to 18", Your going to lose some with underlayment and liner. It's always easier to raise a pot with a flat rock then go deeper when it's done. Also consider your weather in the winter up there, Even with goldfish a 4' deep center will help a lot for keeping the water warm enough for the fish and plants to survive over winter. Instead of 2' then 3' deep I would recommend go 18"- 2' for the shelves, 3 foot then 4 foot. it doesn't sound like much but it will make the water far more stable both in winter and summer, Also protects the fish from predators, Unless your indoors, the chance of predators is always there. Believe me, If they are even close they will find a pond!
 

DrDave

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Good point!
I think it would be wise to elevate the edges above the grade to make sure that no runnoff gets into the pond.
 

koiguy1969

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as DrDave suggested .... i posted this for another member to help keep runoff out of the pond.....
you need just build up the edge of your pond above grade. its as easy as using some 4" - 6" bender board type landscape trim (also used for curved cement work) around the edge fastened (screwed) to some stakes. you can fasten the bender board to the stakes perfectly level no matter the level of the terrain then use the dirt from your dig to back fill up the appropriate level after dropping in the liner and filling pond 2/3s or 3/4s of the way (to work with and keep liner smooth). this will make your pond perfectly level and hide the excess liner at the same time...taper the dirt away from the pond for run off !!
 
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Thanks for the input, I will try and go deeper. My last pond was 4 feet deep but I was in half a zone colder and windier area. I was planning to raise the pond a bit using those cement blocks you see in the pick on the the lower side near the deck, fence and sidewalk side, the otherside being higher from the waterfalls. Either that or we are going to use some old fieldstone blocks from an old foundation, not sure yet. There was a block patio there and have all those pavers now and would like to use them if not the fieldstone.

The trees are redbuds. Pretty and provide shade and privacy but my dad was offering to take them out because they do make a big mess. I could plant a smaller ornamental then. I was just planning to net the pond during the fall and the winter since we aren't outside much anyway. Can the roots puncture the liner or mess with the bottom drain??? That would be bad....
 

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