Green water

[Waterbug]

I did some internet research that suggested increasing the aeration to the pond. Does anyone have experience with that? I cannot afford a UV system at this time. I considered covering a portion of the pond with a tarp to block out the sun for a few days. One site also suggested adding hydrogen peroxide to the water as that is the end result of adding barley but I don't feel comfortable doing that.

Yes, these are all standard myths that are repeated over and over.

If you can't afford a UV I'd have to assume an air pump, or tarp, or gallons of hydrogen peroxide would also be out of the question since they would all be about the same cost and have the added downside of not working.

Adding aeration is what algae farms do to increase the growth of algae. That's a super easy thing to confirm for yourself using Mr Google and lets you know the level of info you've been getting.

When we covered our swimming pool in NY for the winter the water would be green in the spring when the cover was removed. People have this strange belief that algae dies when light is removed. It is true that a total absence of light would stop algae reproduction and eventually the current algae would die of old age. Maybe after a few years? I don't know. What I do know is when you remove the tarp it will take the algae about a week to get right back to full strength, or more. They do this for a living and are darn good at it.

The barley - hydrogen peroxide is a completely made up theory with absolutely no basis. Of course that sure wouldn't stop something from becoming good advice on the internet.

There are dozens more myths out there and more being made up everyday. They just have to sound good.

If UV is out of the question the next best choice might be a Trickle Tower. That just a pile of rocks and you direct your pump output to the top so it flows over the rocks. The idea is it's like a stream. Or make a stream, although that might require a liner and that might cost more than a UV. It is unknown how a stream does or doesn't kill green water algae. Because it's unknown it also means results are not 100%. Norm Meck has the theory the algae is killed by bacteria. My theory is the stream or TT allows string algae to grow which produces allelochemicals to kill the green water algae. The green water algae produces their own chemicals to kill string algae but the stream or TT seems to give the string algae a chance.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I cannot afford a UV system at this time.

Sticker price of some of them UV units can be a little shocking, but I think a lot of them are way over priced. Have you checked out this one?
I bought the same one (+ spare bulb) this spring and have been pleasantly surprised with it's quality and performance.

 

[ashirley]

That one is priced really well. Thanks for the info. I did note that its max 4400 GPH and my pump currently is pumping at 10000GPH. Is there any way to slow that down?

 

[Waterbug]

The pipe coming out from the pump is teed, one branch goes to the UV and the other to wherever. A ball valve is added to each branch to control flow. The branches are not joined back together.

This branching scheme is done, when installed correctly, no matter the pump size. For example if you have a 4400 GPH pump and a 4400 GPH max flow UV you'd still need the branches and valves. The max flow on UV filter doesn't mean you can pump that amount of water thru and have clear water. That's the max flow rate to keep clear water clear. UV can't penetrate green water as much so in those conditions the flow must be reduced, sometimes a lot like 50-75% less. A UV can certainly work without a flow control, but it can also certainly fail. To be 100% effective a UV has to be installed correctly.

 

[ashirley]

Ok here's the plan. I have 4 lingerie bags filled with poly fill pillow stuffing that I am alternating in the stream waterfall, using 2 and then swapping them out with two fresh ones. I also have foam pads in both the waterfall box and the skimmer. I have two extras of those also that I will swap out frequently. If that doesn't clear the algae, I am giving up Plus the temps here have really dropped over the past few days. Maybe I will get to see the fish for Christmas!!

 

[ashirley]

Well while that plan has had limited success, we are looking at a UV system. So can I ask for opinions? Of course the people that sell them say they work fantastic but I have heard that about everything they sell to help green water . Do you have one? Did it work? Was it difficult to install? The friend that turned me on to ponding said that it would not help in the winter time. Is that true? It seems to me if it kills algae in the summer, it will kill it in the winter as well.

 

[sissy]

I don't have one and read for some they work for others they don't .The water has to flow through them slow to really kill the algae and my neighbor bought one because she read all the stuff and had no luck after 2 months her pond looked worse this past summer and was fairly decent when we hooked it up to a small pump in the pond and adjusted the flow down .I figure a smaller pump instead of her big one would work but NOPE .wE SAW THE POND GETTING WORSE EVERY WEEK .She went back to the quilt batting in the filter and water is fine now .I try to help her with her pond because she works .

 

[HTH]

Have you considered a separate area for the plants, maybe use it as a bog filter.

What are you nitrate levels ?

 

[ashirley]

I have a smaller pond that I use for plants in the summer and a stream that is heavily planted. All of my levels are great.

 

[sissy]

Is the pond in full sun .I have never had pea soup green water except when dog destroyed my pond and guessing what vr he had on him caused it and after i rebuilt I added some of the old water back to keep fish healthy but water clear up in a week or 2 ,took a lot of quilt batting in my filters and soaking them in peroxide .Then colleen told me about the grasses and added them and geeze it went to clear water fast

 

[HTH]

Algae feeds on nitrates. Your idea of a great nitrate level seems to be shared by your algae.

 

[ashirley]

The nitrate and nitrite tests read 0. @ Sissy, yes the pond is in full sun all day. Even this summer with the smaller pond completely covered with water hyacinth, it was still green. This summer I am going to make some of the floating planter rings for the larger pond. The koi typically eat all of the plants that we attempt to put in the large pond. I do have some lillies in pop up hampers that managed to survive. The stream is pretty heavily planted as well.

 

[sissy]

my koi do the same .Eat anything in sight or destroy it

 

[HTH]

The nitrate reading is zero because of the algae consuming it. For the koi this is a good thing even if we do not care for it.

UV will clear the water but with the suspended algae gone your nitrates will rise and you will see an explosion of string algae. The nutrients are still there and you can be sure nature will find something to consume it unless you get it first.

If the small pond and the large are connected, or can be connected, you should be able to clear up the problem next summer by getting enough bare root plants into the small pond. You can try getting the plants into the larger and it will help but you know the difficulties with that.

Often water changes make it worse because the koi are still producing waste and the new water supplies the algae with needed minerals.

If you go with UV watch the nitrate levels and see what you can do about bare root plants in the spring.

Koi are hard because we like to stock the ponds to levels that make them hard to maintain. They act more like aquariums then ponds.

Good luck

 

[Waterbug]

Well while that plan has had limited success, we are looking at a UV system. So can I ask for opinions?

I like Aqua Ultraviolet, but only because they publish pretty specific data on their units. They seem pretty serious about their products, not too expensive. I don't like to give opinion along the lines of "I used Brand X once and it's great". Kind of meaningless. I like standalone UV units vs those inside other filters or part of a pump. Those are sold to newbies only imo. They sound good, "do everything" but they "do everything poorly" imo. And if one part clogs or breaks you lose the entire deal.

Bottom line I think all UV units are basically the same because the bulb is really what matters and those come from just a few manufacturers, never the UV builder.

Compare apples to apples. Every UV is both a sterilizer and clarifier, although most you see will be called one or the other but that's just marketing. It's just a matter of how fast water is pushed thru. Aqua UV gives flow rates for both sterilizer and clarifier which makes it easier imo. If one seller says 9 watt is fine for your pond and everyone else says 20 watts you're reading the seller's opinion, not tested results. The 9 watt might actually clear the pond under certain conditions, but then so would a 9 watt from the other sellers. Just because one claims 9 watt works and others say 20 watt doesn't mean the 9 watt is better. I'd assume it was probably worst because I'm getting marketing speak from the seller instead of test results.

A surprising number of outside of the pond units are installed upside down or wrong direction. It's important to follow the directions. They don't want air to be trapped inside which can reduce their ability.

Install a ball valve before the unit so you can control flow. You can also plumb a bypass so the extra water goes around the unit. The sizes for the units is a general guideline and most numbers you see will be for max flow. The thicker the algae the less light can penetrate the water and fewer will be kill. In that case you want to be able to turn down the flow if water doesn't clear in 3-7 days.

Ammonia
Algae does consume nitrate. But nitrate isn't normally an issue for fish. Ammonia is an issue. Algae consume ammonia directly. So a green pond will normally be 0 ammonia and many keepers with think they're safe and they have a great bio filter. Well, the algae is your bio filter, even if you have another. Algae is always first in line at the ammonia buffet. When the algae is killed ammonia can climb so this would be a good time to monitor. Also, the dead algae decomposing will produce ammonia too.

Cold water means ammonia is fairly harmless, so even if you measure ammonia don't be too quick to panic and make things worst. Understand the difference between Free and Total ammonia. It's not that hard and sure can reduce stress for you and your fish.

I don't know your pond or conditions...but killing a pond full of freshly killed algae can have a negative impact on water quality. They decompose very fast even in cold water. If your pond ices over with a fresh load of algae things can get bad. I normally think even 30-60 days of a pond iced over is fine, even good, depending on organic load, but that's a lot of fresh organic load. I'm not saying don't clear the pond now, just saying there might be more risk, but not huge. If you didn't mind waiting until closer to warmer weather I'd wait.

String Algae
You can expect string algae. How do I know you don't already have it? Just guessing. But it's uncommon to have both string algae and green water. It's even more uncommon to have both clear water and no string algae at least in Water Gardens. My theory is the two species fight each other using chemicals. Killing the green water algae will allow string algae and other macro algae to grow. You actually probably have some string / macro algae now but it's had a hard time growing.

Plants
It is very common to hear people say algae can be starved or controlled by plants. Pond surface completely covered with actively growing water hyacinths, OK, maybe. I've certainly had tons of string algae under water hyacinths. But a bunch of marginals? I doubt it very much. Algae has been around a lot longer than higher plants. It is very good at what it does. Algae is in the water, first in line for nutrients. It wins that race every time.

You just measured 0 ammonia and 0 nitrate (I assume) and still had a green pond right? Did the algae look starved? What would have plants done? Zero is as low as it gets.

You just got done chasing a few green water myths (I think), no reason to start chasing macro algae myths now. Treat it like the lawn and pull some out once every week or two as needed. It's your friend making your pond healthier. And with string algae I'll bet you can switch off the UV, save some $$$, even sell the UV if you want. Once the string algae has the upper hand its chemicals will keep the water green free indefinitely although that's not 100% sure.