Green water

[HTH]

It is very common to hear people say algae can be starved or controlled by plants. Pond surface completely covered with actively growing water hyacinths, OK, maybe.

It can work but you are not wrong about the limitations. It has to be plants with roots in the water. Potted plants are useless. The plant to fish mass ratio has to be right..

This is not going to work with a few plants in well stocked koi pond. You need a correctly sized bog garden or such to make it work. That is why I was asking the OP if she had a 2nd pond for plants and if they were connected.

I would say go with the UV in this case.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Well while that plan has had limited success, we are looking at a UV system. So can I ask for opinions? Of course the people that sell them say they work fantastic but I have heard that about everything they sell to help green water . Do you have one? Did it work? Was it difficult to install? The friend that turned me on to ponding said that it would not help in the winter time. Is that true? It seems to me if it kills algae in the summer, it will kill it in the winter as well.

I used Brand X once and it was Great! LOL
Almost all the bulbs in these things are made by the same manufacture, so it's only the quality of the housing that the bulbs are in that really make the difference between bands. Other than that you have to be concerned with flow rates and power of the bulb itself. The specs cited by the manufactures are a good guideline to start, but keep in mind they are generally using brand new bulbs and giving minimum specs on water flow and UV power ratings. In other words, if your bulb is a little old and starting to fade, or your flow rate is a little more than what they recommend you might not get as good a performance as you aught to. That being the case it's and easy fix to simply buy a UV unit rated for a higher pond volume or flow rate than what then you really need. That way it will cover a multitude of flow rates and the bulb will still do it's job even if it is starting to fade a bit. (BTW, you can't tell when a UV light is not putting out the same UV rays it did when it was new just by looking at it.)
Usually the higher rated UV units are not that much more expensive than the lower rated ones, and the higher power ones will do the job of killing algae quicker than the lower power ones, so it makes sense to buy one that is rated higher than the minimum you will need.
When it comes to the actual quality of the unit itself, some are built of stainless steel, and some are built of plastic. As a rule the stainless steel ones are going to be more expensive, but that doesn't mean they work any better. Also there are units that have gizmos that you can pull that are suppose to clean the glass tube inside. Never owned one of those so I can't comment on the effectiveness of how well it cleans. But I will point out that often added complexity adds to the price and the greater possibility that the unit will leak or break.
When making purchases I like to hear from other people who have used the same items, that's where those online rating and review features really come in handy. Even better if I can talk directly to someone who has used the very same product I am thinking of buying. Buy something based solely on manufacture's data is worthless in my opinion, since there is no way of verifying if their data is accurate or not, and even if it is, that doesn't mean that there may not be other problems with the product, that the manufacture is not revealing, that an actual user of the product can tell you about.

Oh and you are correct, if you have a floating algae (green water) problem a properly set up UV unit will fix it,,, doesn't mater what season of the year it is.

 

[shakaho]

How about trying an algae scrubber? This is a simple DIY device to produce a culture of surface-growing algae in the stream of water from your filter. Here are some built for ponds.

I'd love to build one, but I'm one of those people who has never had green water -- not even at start up. The green water algae are present in the water in quantities too small to see. I know that because if I take a bucket of water from the pond and let it sit a few days, it turns green. Something in my ponds inhibits its growth, and like Waterbug, I suspect it is the surface-growing algae.

 

[Waterbug]

I know that because if I take a bucket of water from the pond and let it sit a few days, it turns green. Something in my ponds inhibits its growth, and like Waterbug, I suspect it is the surface-growing algae.

OK that's a new one, and a pretty important finding to me. I've never heard of anyone talking water from a clear pond and setting it aside and watching it go green. What you may have demonstrated is a way to determine the lifespan of whatever is in the water while Norm Meck only showed something did exist. It also shows once again that nutrients and light have almost nothing to do will green water. Well done.

And it's such a simple experiment anyone can perform. Very exciting to me, thanks.

I can see the use of algae scrubbers for indoor applications. To me an outdoor pond is an algae scrubber. Even what seems to be a little bit of macro algae seems to be enough to keep green water algae down. However, I have read several times of a adding a stream or Trickle Tower to a green pond and it clearing as macro algae grows in the stream and/or TT. So I guess they could be considered an algae scrubber. But once clear macro algae could grow inside the pond and once again the entire pond would be an algae scrubber imo.

 

[HTH]

Do not get me wrong. I do hope you find the magic bullet to do away with green water in ponds.

. It also shows once again that nutrients and light have almost nothing to do will green water. Well done.

Is this your logic? Because the nutrient level in the bucket started out equal to that of the pond, the pond must have had nutrients sufficient to grow green water. The pond was not green which proves it was not light or nutrients that cause green ponds.

There are too many variables here to draw this conclusion based on this observation.. One has to understand what has changed between the bucket and pond and how the changes effect the growth of green water.

Howard

 

[rahul mishra]

Hello Everyone,
Green water is a very important resource for global food production. About 60% of the world staple food production relies on … green water. The entire meat production from grazing relies on green water, and so does the production of wood from forestry. In Sub-Saharan Africa almost the entire food production depends on green water (the relative importance of irrigation is minor) and most of the industrial products, such as cotton, tobacco, wood, etc
Vashikaran Specialist | Black Magic Specialist | Vashikaran Mantra

 

[Mucky_Waters]

It also shows once again that nutrients and light have almost nothing to do will green water. Well done.

Yes, something smells a little fishy with that statement, and in this case it's definitely not nitrifying bacteria.

If light has almost nothing to do with the growth of green water algae, then why will it not grow at all in complete darkness?

I guess you could say I've done the same experiment last summer, placing buckets of pond water off to the side in the sun, and the water didn't turn green, but they did grow water net algae in them.

 

[shakaho]

OK that's a new one, and a pretty important finding to me. I've never heard of anyone talking water from a clear pond and setting it aside and watching it go green. What you may have demonstrated is a way to determine the lifespan of whatever is in the water while Norm Meck only showed something did exist. It also shows once again that nutrients and light have almost nothing to do will green water. Well done.

And it's such a simple experiment anyone can perform. Very exciting to me, thanks.

I can see the use of algae scrubbers for indoor applications. To me an outdoor pond is an algae scrubber. Even what seems to be a little bit of macro algae seems to be enough to keep green water algae down. However, I have read several times of a adding a stream or Trickle Tower to a green pond and it clearing as macro algae grows in the stream and/or TT. So I guess they could be considered an algae scrubber. But once clear macro algae could grow inside the pond and once again the entire pond would be an algae scrubber imo.

Interesting, I mentioned my observation on another pond forum and some people said they had observed the same thing. I didn't do it as an experiment. I just had a bucket of pond water that I had forgotten and found it green. I repeated on purpose and got the same result.

I agree that a pond with a healthy population of surface-growing algae functions as an "algae scrubber" to inhibit growth of planktonic algae. However, people who have green water usually do not have a good coating of algae on pond surfaces. Sometimes this is because the pond is new and sometimes because the algae lawn has been destroyed -- perhaps by medication, algaecide, other chemicals, or even an overly tidy pondkeeper who scrubbed the liner clean to start spring right. Once a pond has an established ecosystem in which green-water algae dominate, the surface-growing algae can't get established since the planktonic algae have first dibs on light. By putting an algae scrubber in the waterfall from the filter, you give the surface-growing algae a protected place to get established. As the green water clears, these can grow on the in-pond surfaces, establishing a new ecosystem with clear water.

Now mind you, I have no personal experience that algae scrubbers clear green water, since I don't have green water to treat. But to a biologist, the principle appears sound, and a lot of people claim good results. I'd just like to see someone with a green pond try it.

 

[Waterbug]

Is this your logic?

Yes. That's why I wrote it.

Because the nutrient level in the bucket started out equal to that of the pond, the pond must have had nutrients sufficient to grow green water. The pond was not green which proves it was not light or nutrients that cause green ponds.

Correct.

There are too many variables here to draw this conclusion based on this observation.. One has to understand what has changed between the bucket and pond and how the changes effect the growth of green water.

Do matter what that thing was, temp, color of the bucket, space rays., etc., the pond and the bucket had the same nutrient level which means nutrients in the pond was not a factor in keeping the pond clear...something else was. What that was is unknown. Of course there are 100's of possible things that may have interfered with the outcome and so the outcome isn't as it appears. Bucket water could have been warmer, pH may have changed, bucket might have been dirty, bird may have crapped in the bucket, etc. A single comment in a forum is not proof of anything. But it is interesting to me and an experiment I will try in the future to see what I can find out.

But the logic to me is still light years ahead of what normally passes for logic in forums. So it interested me.

 

[sissy]

colleen did that experiment with canning jars this past summer with tap water and pond water in sun and shade with and without plants .

 

[shakaho]

I assume Waterbug was exaggerating a bit when he said nutrients have NOTHING to do with algae growth. We all know highly eutrophic water will quickly grow vast quantities of algae. However, some algae will grow in very clean water. I use an automatic water change system in which I drip dechlorinated water from containers into my little ponds. Our tap water is very clean, and yet these covered, clean-water containers grow algae on their inner surfaces. I think the only thing that can consume enough nutrients to starve out algae would be more efficient algae.

Sissy, where is the description of Colleen's experiment? I'd like to read about it.

 

[sissy]

I think it was when she first posted ponds in canada

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I assume Waterbug was exaggerating a bit

Yes he can be forgiven, we have all been known to do that at times to validate our own reasoning, it's just the kind of logic we've come to expect in forums like these. That's how the myths get started though.

Algae seems to grow well with relatively little measurable nutrients in the water, but take away sunlight and it doesn't stand a chance. The total absence of light may be a difficult thing to do in an outdoor pond environment, still, it can't be ignored.
I think what waterbug was really trying to say was, nutrients and light are not the sole determining factors in whether a particular pond will have a planktonic algae bloom or not, and that there are other critical influences that are at play, which may be true. but that's not how he said it, so it comes off sounding like light and nutrients have nothing to do with planktonic algae growth, which is not true.

 

[HTH]

Sissy, where is the description of Colleen's experiment? I'd like to read about it.

Agreed.

Waterbug I took the time to read you text on barley straw and what you said there makes sense. Your above statement would have gone over better had you said it seems light and nutrients are not the key factors in controlling green water.

Small things like the color of the bucket are important because the bucket is absorbing and reflecting different wavelengths of light. It is interesting to look a bits of the puzzle in isolation for clues but we have to look at the entire system for confirmation.

 

[sissy]

Think all comes down to fish load ,filters and light ,simple .you just have to find what works and then hang in there until it clears .No ones pond is going to be the same ,like no ones weather is going to be the same .quick fixes none ,simple answers none .It is like raising children there all different and thousands of ways to raise them .It can drive you crazy .no offense to anyone .I know I try nutty ways that work ,but they are a lot of work at first but then I reap the rewards . :goldfish: