Help: Big red Spots / Sores on side of fish?

[drtchock]

Hi, my dad has a pond and the fish survived all winter, but now they seem to be coming down with the same disease one by one and edventually dying.

They get this red spot/sore like thing on the side of them before they edventually die.

The fish and pond have been looked at by a couple of local experts and they are baffled as the pond is perfect temperature and has perfect ph and nitrate levels.

He has used a few different anti-bacterial solutions that have been recommended to him by the experts but they have had no effect.

Heres some pictures of 2 of the effected fish..

This 1st one was taken after the fish had died...

you can clearly see the sore on the side of the dead fish.

This 2nd fish is currently still alive..

Can anyone identify the disease and tell me what the cure is? My dads tried alot and we've hit a brick wall, so any help would be great, for the sake of the fish!

Thankyou

 

[koiguy1969]

oh wow..small ulcers are not a good thing and those are huge!! i have yet to have to deal with them but those wont be easy... and they are ulcers so look up ulcer treatments...you may need a qt/ hospital tank.

 

[koikeepr]

Yes, this is not good. You can see raw meat. I can't imagine these fish will survive this.

My suspicion here is poor water quality. Do you do weekly water changes of at least 20%??

I would do an immediate water change of 50% right now. Dump half your water and introduce new water that is dechlorinated (I'm assuming you use a dechlor product when you do water changes, correct?) You need to get a water test kit and test your water to help us see the parameters. I bet you have a very high ammonia level and Ph based on this. You could also take some water to a petstore that sells fish, and they will usually test it for you. Petsmart does this, for example. Just be sure to write down the info and report it here.

Nothing you do to these fish will cure them if your water quality isn't brought to good levels.

I would say you should add salt to this pond, but honestly, I do think that the fish would actually be in pain from it with such raw meat showing.

I would grab each fish that has this and use merchuriochrome on it to prevent an infection from getting in there. It's that red stuff you paint on with a little stick. It's the stuff moms used on kids when they scraped their knees. I'm sure your dad will remember what it is. And you can buy it in any pharmacy. It will stain the fish for a while, but then goes away after a few weeks. Unfortunately, catching these fish will stress them and obviously they are already in a highly stressed state due to these ulcers, which I can't imagine don't hurt.

Honestly, I would be surprised if the fish make it. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. If they don't, I would completely break this pond down and start from scratch with fresh water.

 

[stroppy]

i think the kindest thing to do for that poor guy if it was mine was to put him to sleep sorry but i cant help think he must be really suffering

 

[DrDave]

The most humane thing to do is put them down. I place mine in ice water, that puts them to sleep and then I freeze them. There is no pain this way and they do not suffer.

 

[koikeepr]

I do agree with the rest of you. These fish just have to be in pain. Drtchock, if you would have consulted us early when these were teensy wounds, we might have been able to help more--but these ulcers are just enormous. I don't really remember seeing fish this bad off in a really long time.

 

[drtchock]

Hi,

Thanks for your input.
The water quality is perfect no issues whatsoever, I have changed 80% of the water recently, the salt content is/was about 3%, I have tried all of the suggested remedies, including Formaldahide & Malacite, anti bacterial treatment etc. The speed that this has spread has been astonishing and the speed it attacks the individual fish is quite shocking one day the leasion is small, two days later despite treatment it is huge, no matter what treatment is used.
. My local supplier is baffled by this, he also thought it could be water and tested it himself, but it was in his own words "perfect".

This pond is less that one year old, I am thinking that whatever this is has been imported with one or more fish!

Thanks again for all of your help.

 

[drtchock]

Yes I use a filter to dechlornate the water (Carbon filter).
If I have to start again from scratch, how do I ensure that nothing is in the filter system to start this syndrome again?

This has been an awfull experience and not one that I would wish on anyone. I have been totally dependant on the advice from my local supplier, who seems to be at a loss.

For the record I am using a "Nexus Pod" filter system which actually is a bit on the big side for the pond, but as I understand it, extra capacity is no bad thing.
I have used NT labs products to try to treat this, including EX-5, formaldahide & malachite and an anti bacterial treament.

Thank you again for all your help.

 

[koikeepr]

drtchock, I would scrap the whole pond and all it's inhabitants and start again. Clean everything thoroughly with a 10% bleach solution (1 part bleach/9 parts water). I would dump any filter media and get new pads or whatever.

Start with only a smal number of fish. You don't mention the size of your pond, so it's hard to tell if you were overpopulated or if your pond is even too small for koi.

I would not purchase any more fish from that particular supplier, either. Try another.

Good luck to you! We hope your second turn at this turns out to be better.

 

[Squidhead]

Did you do a chlorine test on your water? Is your carbon filter properly sized for your pond volume and pumps flow rate? Carbon filters require a good amount of contact time to sucessfully remove chlorine. It also depends on your water treatment facilities chlorine dossage. If you have had recent flooding in or around your area, the dossage will go up. Everyone (water management facilities) seems to be using Chloramine now, which prolongs the "life time " of chlorine. The pics almost seem to be burns of some sort I have seen on tropical fish where the owner didn't use a dechlorinator. Are the gills red ?

 

[DrDave]

You mentioned 3% salt in your post. That is way too much for an extended period. Are you sure it wasn't .3%?

 

[Mrshkoiluver]

You say you use a carbon filter for chlorine removal... Are you sure your carbon filter is not spent?

 

[DrDave]

Good point, they do have a lifespan. Test the water...

 

[koiguy1969]

chloramine is chorine and ammonia mixed and added to the water as a gas as is regular clorine. caebon wont do anything to the ammonia except seperate it from the chlorine...if your water supply is treated with chloramines you would also need to have zeolite in the system fot the ammonias. all in all using a regular dechlorinator is more effective, and not expensive...for the piece of mind!!

 

[drtchock]

Did you do a chlorine test on your water? Is your carbon filter properly sized for your pond volume and pumps flow rate? Carbon filters require a good amount of contact time to sucessfully remove chlorine. It also depends on your water treatment facilities chlorine dossage. If you have had recent flooding in or around your area, the dossage will go up. Everyone (water management facilities) seems to be using Chloramine now, which prolongs the "life time " of chlorine. The pics almost seem to be burns of some sort I have seen on tropical fish where the owner didn't use a dechlorinator. Are the gills red ?

The gills are not red, I have tested ALL water perms and all seems ok, the local shop has also tested the water using his kit and once again all was ok including chlorine test.
I use a carbon filter to introduce fresh water to the pond after fushing the filter, I have a Nexus Pod, the pond holds about 450 gallons so the filter system really is over kill according to the spec of the pump and filter.
The water enters the pond from a small water fall which adds air, also I have two additional air bricks supplying a small amount of air to the pond.

We have had no flooding in our area, I also have not used any pestasides or fertlisers on my garden (you should see the state of my lawn!).
At first I thought it was being caused by a parasite, but now I am not too sure as I have used good qualty Nt labs treatment.

Thank you very much for all your help, it is really appreciated.