Help my koi are dying

Discussion in 'Illness and Disease' started by heartrnb, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    I have a 2300 gallon pond with about 125 koi last fish added was 6 koi 3 weeks ago. He had them quarantined for 4 weeks before selling he is a dealer of Koi. Now I have koi losing scales and there fins look tore up and they are dying. There is no signs of ulcers or any reddness. I need help fast thanks
     
    heartrnb, Aug 25, 2014
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  2. heartrnb

    Fishylove

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    Honey I'm sorry that's happening BUT that is WAAAAAAAY too many koi for a pond that big :(
    I have around 3000gal with the bog and I have to keep myself from buying more koi. And I have 6 koi, 4 goldfish, 2 subunkins, and several babies from this years spawning, I'm sure I'll have to rehome in the spring......
     
    Fishylove, Aug 25, 2014
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  3. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    all water tests come back fine my PH is 7.4 nothing has changed except adding them 6 koi 3 weeks ago
     
    heartrnb, Aug 25, 2014
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  4. heartrnb

    dieselplower

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    I'm sorry for your situation but you will not get much help without test result numbers and pictures. Shoot I could Google search "fish dying losing scales torn fins" and throw an answer at you but you could do that yourself.
     
    dieselplower, Aug 25, 2014
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  5. heartrnb

    bettasngoldfish Maria

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    Am I reading this right? You have 125 koi in your pond? Can you estimate the sizes of these fish?

    And please list your actual numbers as suggested. Ammonia, nitrite, ph, nitrate, GH, KH, and temperature of your pond water.

    The more info you can share the better help you will get.
     
    bettasngoldfish, Aug 25, 2014
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  6. heartrnb

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    Welcome to the forum.

    Unfortunately, there's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. The number one "cure" for sick fish is good water quality. I don't think you are going to be able to do an immediate fix until you make some changes.

    But I will ask some questions and throw out a few comments, some already stated...

    1. How long have you had a 2300 gallon pond with 125 koi in it?
    2. What size are these fish?
    3. Even if you buy from a reputable dealer, you still need to quarantine your own fish once you acquire them. What the dealer does, doesn't count.
    4. The damage has already been done, but do you have any way you can pull the obviously sick fish and put them in a quarantine/hospital tank, to separate them from the others?
    5. Water tests: we need to know numbers, not "OK," or "normal"
    6. What are the dimensions of your pond?
    7. What kind of filtration do you have?
    8. Do you have any pictures of the fish to show their problems?
    9. Do you have any pictures of your pond?
    10. We recommend using liquid "drop" tests kits (and not the test strips) -- what do you use, and can you give us these results?
    Ammonia?
    Nitrites?
    Nitrates?
    pH?
    KH?
    GH?
    Water temperature?
     
    Mmathis, Aug 26, 2014
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  7. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    I use API master kit ammomia 0, nitrities 0, Nittrates 40, PH 7.4, water temp 71 not sure about kh and gh. I started with a 1000 gallon pond in may, but was not deep enough I am new to this and have been doing really good until now. My 2300 gallon pond has been running since first of july. I have a matala box filter with bio balls and matala filtration material in it. and a waterfall box with the same material. I have matala aerator with 2 nine inch stones/ I also have a fountain hooked to a filter box. My pond is at biggest 19 feet by 13 feet by 4 feet. I have 20 fish about 7 inches long and the rest are around 3 inches long. they all have been in there except for 6 7 inch long fish which was added about 3 weeks ago. My pond is now drained and the fish are in a 300 gallon tank and I started using proform-c yesterday. I have treated the water twice following directions but this afternoon another fish died. Just want to make sure that I am doing the right thing. 502.JPG 503.JPG
     
    heartrnb, Aug 26, 2014
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  8. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    I do not have pictures I took one fish to my pond guy and he is the one that started proform-c. I will take pictures tomorrow and post.
     
    heartrnb, Aug 26, 2014
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  9. heartrnb

    Dave 54

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    It sounds suspiciously like you have skin Columnaris to me so I suggest you get someone on the scene to second that by taking tests, i;e your dealership..... then the sooner you can act in saving them,.....
    Your going to need an antibacterial and a good one to even make a dent in this I'm affraid and with that many koi it maty be way too late to save them all ........
    We have never in 27 years of Val and I keeping koi, have heard of so many koi in one pond unless a specialist dealership Vat designed to hold them in QT.
    Which ever way this pans out and It wont be pretty your going to have to loose many of any survivors to around the 16 mark
    Over stocking a pond is one sure fire way to get this disease poor water quality another , good husbandry is our main weapon against outbreaks such as these.
    One factor that will help cause an outbreak high water temperatures, so if you have any of the above.... then nines out of ten your going to get an outbreak of it .
    May I suggest strongly you buy a few good koi heath manuels and read them also books on koi to give you a working knowledge as to how to keep koi propperly

    Dave
     
    Dave 54, Aug 26, 2014
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  10. heartrnb

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    @heartrnb, just to clarify something, in your 1st post you said you had 125 koi -- was that number a misprint?

    And thank you for the additional information, as well as the pictures. It's good that you're already using the API test kit -- I think that's what most of us use. Your water parameters look OK, except the nitrates are a little high. You could do a partial water change to bring that down. Look for additional test kits by API for KH & GH and test for those, as well. Once you get some results, we can look at those and give you better advice regarding your pH and if you need to make changes there.

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned has to do with upsetting a "balance" with a pond's biological system. Even in very well maintained ponds, the addition of a few extra fish can stress that balance and cause problems for the fish. Before we can advise how to treat your fish, we have to know what you are treating -- a disease vs a water quality issue, or both. If, indeed, you do have that many fish in your pond, I would advise lowering that number, as well as isolating any that look sick.
     
    Mmathis, Aug 26, 2014
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  11. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    Dave no open sores gills are normal. they are just losing there scales I am treating them with proform-c in a different tank I emptied my pond. I have been testing my water every other day at 2pm and all my levels have been good all along my ph has been 7.4 for two months. I am at a lost as well as my pond guy. The fins looked good on most but some looked ragged.
     
    heartrnb, Aug 26, 2014
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  12. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    Turtle Mommy yes I had 125 fish but not now I have lost alot of fish in just a few days. They all looked healthy, moving and eating. I only feed them once a day and only as much as they can eat in 3 minutes. Whatever is left I remove.
     
    heartrnb, Aug 26, 2014
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  13. heartrnb

    JohnHuff Friends call me Dr. Sir John Huff

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    Too many koi.
     
    JohnHuff, Aug 26, 2014
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  14. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    too many koi will cause scales to just fall off. These fish has been together for a long time except the last 6 I put in 3 weeks ago. I have not had any water problems I have a well and use that water i do change 25 to 50 percent of my water weekly. Filters I dip in the pond water that I take out once a month nothing big just to get rid of the big stuff. I use a pump to remove the water out of the bottom of my filters. I am at a lost, I think when I put them fish in they must have had something. out of them fish I have 3 left. Its strange because my little fish are dying but so are the big ones. I still have about 60 little ones that look great and some big ones too.
     
    heartrnb, Aug 26, 2014
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  15. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    Sorry if I sound cold but I am going crazy here. My poor fish are dying and I don't know what to do. My water has always been clear you can see the fish, except for the deepest part, where it gets a little darker. I have an umbrella that I put up to keep the sun at bay. Next year I will be expanding to add a bog and I will be placing plants to help with shade. This year I do not some plants in the pond I have floaters and other's like lilys and others plants. in the waterfall filter I have water lettuce, I also have two floating skimmers next year I will be putting a big one in. As for the pond is there anything I should clean it with besides water.
     
    heartrnb, Aug 26, 2014
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  16. heartrnb

    JohnHuff Friends call me Dr. Sir John Huff

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    Take the new fish out.
     
    JohnHuff, Aug 26, 2014
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  17. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    0016.jpg 0021.jpg
     
    heartrnb, Aug 26, 2014
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  18. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    that's the fish I found this am I have them all together treating them all with proform-c
     
    heartrnb, Aug 26, 2014
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  19. heartrnb

    Fishylove

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    There has to be something we're missing here, there is no way you can have that many fish and have good water quality. Am I'm I right in stating, you expanded your pond in July? How did you do this? And did you save the water from the pond if you drained it to expand it? Did you add the fish back to the pond as soon as the pond was finished or did you let it cycle? Ammonia should be 0, nitrates should be 0. Your ph is good. 50% is a bit excessive of a water change.


    *Please don't get discouraged or upset at our questions, this is the only way we can learn whats going on and how to help you. We are most certainly glad to have you on our forum and welcome you. When there is a serious problem, we like to hit it head on, and it is NOT meant to put you on the defensive or bash you as a bad fishy mommy :) We just want to help you save as many fish as we can. AND WE WILL, we just need lots of info ;)

    Now back to your nitrates, the good bacteria has to have time to build (cycle) in a closed system like ours, if you over load it too fast, the bacteria will not keep up with the production of ammonia. Idk if you know how this works, but basically, fish (especially koi) = waste/ ammonia, ammonia is harmful to fish; The good bacteria = there are two types in a pond ecosystem ( three if you count the bad stuff lol), one that turns the ammonia into nitrates- the other turns the nitrates into nitrites with is what will feed your plants. The bacteria that converts the ammonia will grow faster than the other slower developing bacteria. Which is what I surmise is happening here, and it may very well be something else that has compromised the fish also, because they are stressed. When fish are stressed is makes them susceptible to diseases and parasites. If you have nitrates this tells me you don't have enough of the nitrite converting bacteria in your system to keep up with the fish load.
     
    Fishylove, Aug 26, 2014
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  20. heartrnb

    heartrnb

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    Sorry just did not want you guys to think I was being defensive, I am worried that I am going to lose all my fish. Maybe I have this backwards my nitrites are at almost 40 and ammonia and nitrates are 0. After I filled the new pond I let it run for a few days but it did have my old filter system hooked up to it. The waterfall was already there and I put the matala filter media in water to keep the good bacteria while we was building the new pond. And the matala biosteps filter was hooked to the tank holding the fish. I also used a starter kit for bacteria from a pond guy to ensure that I had the bacteria going. I do not change 50% of the water every week only when the ammonia level starts to increase, which has only been one time since I started the new pond. Most of the time it many be less than 25% depends on how they look and the pond looks.
     
    heartrnb, Aug 26, 2014
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