Help my koi are dying

[Dave 54]

I am gettng more and more confused here why on earth did you drain your pond thats no way to treat your koi first stressing them out with the amount of numbers you held in your pond , then them getting sick and dying , then stressing the out even more by catching them netting them out and putting them in an even smaller space ?
Nothing you are saying makes any sense whatsoever
50 koi in 300 gallons Jesus I'm sorry but what the hell are you doing, you've now stressed your fish out by catching them all then stuck 50 koi in 300 gallons you've emptied your pond which now means they will be going back in an uncycled pond "even more stress , it wont have gotten rid of your problem at all ?
The aim was to treat your koi in their pond then any survivors be gotten rid of thus reducing your koi numbers to a more managable level ........I gave you my thought as to what I thought was wrong with your koi , you did not ho back to your dealer to see if he could confirm my diagnoses .
Because you treated them prior to them going into the 300 gallon QT tank, you can now not treat them with any other treatment for 10 days or more and we have the added problem of cycling your pond again removing the 50 koi back into the pond .as you cant treat all 50 wilst they are in the smaller pond.
So what have we missed here what are you not telling us please ?????


Dave

 

[Dave 54]

Sorry just did not want you guys to think I was being defensive, I am worried that I am going to lose all my fish. Maybe I have this backwards my nitrites are at almost 40 and ammonia and nitrates are 0. After I filled the new pond I let it run for a few days but it did have my old filter system hooked up to it. The waterfall was already there and I put the matala filter media in water to keep the good bacteria while we was building the new pond. And the matala biosteps filter was hooked to the tank holding the fish. I also used a starter kit for bacteria from a pond guy to ensure that I had the bacteria going. I do not change 50% of the water every week only when the ammonia level starts to increase, which has only been one time since I started the new pond. Most of the time it many be less than 25% depends on how they look and the pond looks.

The way to keep koi is in small numbers allowing for them to grow , you nust check the water perameters on a weekly basis and you do water changes at regular intervals not when the ammonia is going up .
You must clean your pond and filters prior to winter thuroughly , then again in spring bringing us into to the summer season and in late autumn rady for winter again maintenance of pond and filters must be done on a regular basis .
This may sound hurtful but I dont mean it to be , for as long as you have been keeping your huge number of koi you have somehow managed to dodge a bullet..... now sadly for you everything you have been doing wrong has finally come back to bite you big style, in that you have so far lost to our reconing 100 koi and you have 50 left stuck in a 300 gallon pond why ????.
We need to get you back on track you draing the pond has complicated matters , may I ask why you drained it ???.... was it an attept to rid the pond of parasites ?
Problem is they live on your fish as well , normally a healthy koi is uneffected but parasites and bacteria are crafty and they bide their time waiting for the right moment like when in a stressful situation arrises, i;e 150 in a pond.... well thats an accident waiting to happen.
Please tell me have you ever read any books on koi keeping or koi health matters ?
If not here is a list of koi books we have in our library please feel free to read it and then go out and buy some of them especially the Interpet Manuel of koi Health :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/our-fish-koi-health-library-with-reviews-of-each-book.10498/

It will let you know all you need to know about everything that can befall your koi and why as well as how to go about treating them .
You simply cannot in future go mad and stock your pond to those levels again, did you ask your dealer to come over to scrape your koi to see whats wrong with them as my diagnoses still stands and if they concur its what you should be treating for .
Did your dealer originally give you advice as to how many koi a pond should hold and why its advisable not to over stock ?
Weve been successfully keeping koi for the past 27 years now and over that time have lost only nine koi whch by the sceme of things is good .
There are other koi keepers on this site who will agree with what I'm saying and as I said we are only trying to help you but if your doing your own thing ( i;e draining your pond plus placing 50 koi in a 300 gallon tank and wont take anyones advice), it seems to us that this was a panic reaction as to what was happening in your pond.
"Note for future reference the koi should be treated in situ i;e the pond"
So please listen to what we are all trying to help you with otherwise I can see this ending up with you being koi-less by the end of the week




Dave

 

[dieselplower]

Dave, relax before you have a stroke! Lol. I have to say, no-one gave this guy advice how to proceed, so we can't beat him up over what I'm sure were good intentions.

 

[heartrnb]

First thing I did was take a dead fish and some water to my pond guy. He told me to drain the pond 90% and put the fish in a smaller pond to treat them with proform-c so that is what I did. And to take all filters and place in water except for the matala to hook that to the smaller pond. After three days to fill my pond up let it run and treat it for a few days then put the fish back in. I am on here because my fish are still dying and I need help. The fish that are dying are the sick ones. They are all swimming around like they are fine, next morning there is a dead one I have only lost 6 fish since I started the treatment that my pond guy gave me. I have read a lot about Koi before I did this, for god sakes I have had saltwater fish for years and did fine reading. And as for that amount of fish I have a lot of friends with that many. I know ammonia kills I have been testing my water daily since I placed them last 6 fish and my ammonia level has been 0 and yes the same time of day. I change about 10 to 25% of water weekly for maintenance. Oh and I am a woman not a guy. I did not come on here for the bashing I came for help. I need to know if the purple on the sides of my pond is normal or not so I can clean what I need to before before water back in.

 

[Dave 54]

Dave, relax before you have a stroke! Lol. I have to say, no-one gave this guy advice how to proceed, so we can't beat him up over what I'm sure were good intentions.

Not beating her up mate just trying to help
You know us we dont like to see fish die needlessly

Dave

 

[Dave 54]

First thing I did was take a dead fish and some water to my pond guy. He told me to drain the pond 90% and put the fish in a smaller pond to treat them with proform-c so that is what I did. And to take all filters and place in water except for the matala to hook that to the smaller pond. After three days to fill my pond up let it run and treat it for a few days then put the fish back in. I am on here because my fish are still dying and I need help. The fish that are dying are the sick ones. They are all swimming around like they are fine, next morning there is a dead one I have only lost 6 fish since I started the treatment that my pond guy gave me. I have read a lot about Koi before I did this, for god sakes I have had saltwater fish for years and did fine reading. And as for that amount of fish I have a lot of friends with that many. I know ammonia kills I have been testing my water daily since I placed them last 6 fish and my ammonia level has been 0 and yes the same time of day. I change about 10 to 25% of water weekly for maintenance. Oh and I am a woman not a guy. I did not come on here for the bashing I came for help. I need to know if the purple on the sides of my pond is normal or not so I can clean what I need to before before water back in.

No one I know has stocking levels that high Brenda but by drianing your pond you have complicated matters somewhat in that you will need to cycle the pond again we are only trying to help you here your pond guy should have taken a scrape and told you the results of the scrape did he do one or was it just a visual oh yeah your koi have this treat them with this ?
Just bacause your friends are heavily stocked doesnt mean you shoul follow suite , I like it that you like us studied into marine where as we did with koi (you wouldnt stock a marine tank that high would you ?
Do you have anyone near you that can give your koi a scrape and look at the results under a microscope at least then you'll know what it is your up against Brenda ?
Taking a dead fish to your pond guywas useless, he should have known that, the parasites that would have infeted it would be gone you need to do it pond side

Dave

 

[heartrnb]

no I have nobody around here that would do that. I live in a an area that don't have many pond places to begin with I drive 45 minutes to the closes place that I feel comfortable with. I have been to many places and most had dead fish in there tanks they was selling fish out of so I will not go to them. I have been to the Michigan Koi but he is hard to get info out of he told me not to place stones or plants in my pond. If you want to have fish have fish if you want to have a plant garden have a plant garden is what he told me. So here I am. I really need to fill my pond back up but not sure how much I need to clean. its all dry except for 10% at the bottom. I have purple on the sides is that good or bad

 

[Mmathis]

I'm not understanding -- WHAT is purple, and when did it show up? Is it the growth on the liner or a film of some kind, and effect of the treatment? Can anyone help heartrnb with this -- is the purple color a good or a bad thing?

Do you have any aeration in the pond -- air stones?

 

[heartrnb]

yes I have two nine inch air stones with a matala aerator the purple is dried on the sides and bottom of my pond and no it has not been treated with anything. the pond only has 10% water in it

 

[Dave 54]

Brenda would you like to be able too be self sufficient in taking scrapes etc? if your answer is yes then your going to need a nice microscope, slides and fixers we own a Bresser NG x 40 - x 1024
Microscopes are easy to come by on Amazon Turtle Mommy now does her own and is now able to anethatize her fish thanx to threads weve posted and is very keen to learn more.
Weve done thread on the forum of how to take a scrape , once learned its very easy to do.
Question Brenda Is the Purple as a result of the treatment used in the pond ?
With only 10% of water in the pond when you fill it again it will most probably have to go through a cyle which will be rough on the fish perhaps add only one or two of the strongest to get things running again.
Question these purple patches dried onto the sides of the pond is what you have been using Potasium Permanganate under a different name , it comes in a purple crystal ?


Dave

 

[Fishylove]

Ok, sorry bought that, I got the nitrates and nitrite names mixed up, but the results are the same. Your pond has to cycle, cleaning your entire pond will destroy what good Aerobic bacteria has established IN the pond, (or letting it dry out) those portions will now have to regrow. Yes you do have the colony in your filter, which is a good thing, but I'm afraid that will not be enough for even the 50 you have left. Stress plays a Huge part in a fishes health. Just like there is bad bacteria Always on OUR bodies, there is Always bad bacteria and parasites in a pond; no matter how much you filter or how clear your water is they will alway be there WAITING. Stress ie: low oxygen, over stocking, over feeding, introducing new fish before quarantine, hot weather, too much rain; these things and more can compromise your fish..... Mother Nature can be a B***h, and she will correct things if we don't.

I would be interested, as is Dave, to know if the dealer did do a scrape and what, if anything did he identify from that. I know that loosing fish is awful, but we need to take a deep breath, take a step back before reacting and get some facts. Then treat. Yes, you want to stop the fish from dying, but treating hurriedly, could result in the wrong decision and will then delay the correct treatment.
Also, when you say koi dealer, is this a person that is a specialist in koi; or even fish in general, and no just a pet food center that sells animals? I'm not saying ALL pet food centers do not know what they are doing ( although I have found no one in my area that doesn't use the strips for testing pond water) but let's be honest, most don't and do not have the tools to diagnose what is wrong with your fish.
I'm sorry for your loss, and wish you well in saving the rest of your fish. And please, when everything settles, thin the herd?

 

[Mmathis]

yes I have two nine inch air stones with a matala aerator the purple is dried on the sides and bottom of my pond and no it has not been treated with anything. the pond only has 10% water in it

I have no idea what the "purple" is, but hopefully someone else does and can contribute. I'd be worried, too.

@fishin4cars @crsublette

 

[heartrnb]

this is the purple that I see

 

[heartrnb]

I use a Koi guy that has had Koi for over 25 years and selling them making ponds etc. He has never seen this purple stuff before so I need some help here.

 

[heartrnb]

My pond guy has never seen it before so it worries me that maybe somebody put something in my pond. My fish have been healthy all along and everything was good until friday I found two dead fish, but they was about an 1 long so did not really concern me much because of them being so small. But I change 25% of the water friday and sat was great but when I woke up sunday to 4 big fish and a bunch of little ones I went to my pond guy with one big fish and water. He gave me proform-c and told me to dump 90% of the water and refill and use it. I told him I had a 300 gallon tank he told me to put all the fish is there and start treating them so I did. I have only lost maybe 6 fish since. They are all swimming around and look healthy but some of them lost scales and fins. I test my water all the time at the same time of day. I just dont understand. Most of the fish in my tank are 3-4 inches long I have maybe 16 fish that are 6-7 inches. I just don't understand and it seems nobody else does either. I have been on this computer since sunday doing research and nothing looks like what my fish do.