Help! New Batch of Koi Appear Sick

[Bertkins]

I've recently restocked my pond from a local supplier. Within the last 3 weeks, I've purchased approximately 17 Koi from this vendor. These fish all range in size from 4 inches to 10 inches (most are about 5 or 6 though).

Last week, I noticed one of them had 2 pretty prominent, white "salt rocks" on its tailfin. I'm pretty sure this is Ich. After conducting some research online, I found a product called Knockout Plus from Crystalclear. I've been dosing my pond since Friday with this product. I chose this product because you don't have to remove the biological filters etc.. and you can dose the entire pond simultaneously.

I lost one of these fish on Saturday. Now, at least half of my fish are flashing and most of them are "hiding" or laying on the bottom of the pond. I fear the situation is only getting worse.

Before I list out some questions, here are some vitals stats regarding my setup:

Water quality
* Ammonia Level (pond): 0
* Nitrite Level (pond): 0
* Ammonia Level (tap water): 0
* Nitrite Level (tap water): 0
* Ph Level, pond (If possible, KH, GH and chlorine): 7.6
* Ph Level, tap water (If possible, KH, GH and chlorine): 7.6
* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Master Pond Test Kit, drops and strips

Other useful information:
* Pond has a mature bio filter system in place. The pond also has many plants. No additional aeration though. I ordered a dissolved oxygen meter yesterday and will have it tomorrow. Once I have it, I'll post my dissolved oxygen levels.
* Water temperature? Around 60 F, sometimes up to 65 F. I live in North Dallas so the Temp swings are pretty dramatic. Right now, 60 F is pretty average.
* Pond size and how long has it been running? Approximately 1,400 gallons, 3-year old pond. Pond is about 11.5 X 10 x average depth of 2 feet
* What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Savio Compact Skimmerfilter (CSW085) with Savio Livingponds Filter (F070). Recently installed ultrabright 28 Watt ultrabright UV light in the skimmer.
* Pump is pushing 1,500 GPH through the waterfall filter, then cascades down rocks a couple of feet before going back into the pond so plenty of aeration
* How often do you change the water and how much? Approximately 20% per month. Sometimes a little more in summer
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 30 days ago (1 week before adding the first batch of new fish). Changed about 50% as I was conducting my annual "spring cleaning" on the pond. Also removed all gravel from the bottom of the pond. I used to have about 3 inches.
* How many fish in the pond and their type? There's approximately 18 fish (not counting the 7 or 8 baby Koi, they're only 1 inch).
* What kind of water additives or conditioners have you used? Always use API Pond Stress Coat pond water conditioner. Removes chlorine and other toxic chemicals and helps protect slimecoat etc...
* What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari sinking pellets
* Any medications added to the pond? Knockout Plus, beginning on April 21st.
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and pond. Have only used Knockout Plus. I've only lost 1 fish over 3 years due to illness. Most got eaten by Blue Heron last year

Ok, now for my questions and observations:

1) Does anyone have any experience using Knockout Plus? Is this product legit? I only ask because I can't locate any information about what's it made of. Is it really safe for your bio filters etc... I'm supposed to use it for 7 days, my fear is this if it doesn't work, it may be too late to try anything else. Can I use some type of anti-bacterial remedy with this product??

2) As noted above, half of the fish are flashing. And they are now all laying on the bottom of the pond together. They've been doing this for a couple days now. The first 2 weeks or so, they were pretty active all day. Another interesting thing I've noticed is that the majority of them all seem to lay in the same area, usually facing the same direction, in a remote corner of the pond. They all do this except for 3 or 4 of them, usually after 6 PM or so. This morning, I noticed one of them was laying on its side in the middle of the pack. Not good. Minus this one fish, all the others seem to be eating very well.

3) The original fish that I spotted the ich on, appears to be doing much better now. Isn't really hiding anymore and is eating like crazy. The 2 white "salt rocks" are still there though.

Does anybody have any ideas, pointers or suggestions?

Ps... I'll post some pics tomorrow

 

[WaterGardener]

Do you have a KH testing kit?

That's an awful lot of fish for that sized pond. Since they are small, it might work for a while. But for long term, that's seriously overstocked.

 

[JRS]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your problems.

Looks like your treatment contains "Organic Herbals Based On Naphthoquinones" as active ingredient and is used by other companies like Kordon in similar treatments. Not sure how effective it is. Here are some pictures of different parasites and treatments for comparison: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?57011-Parasite-Pictures-And-Information

 

[Mgessert]

I would return them to the vender, wait a month, then put in two koi or 20 goldfish.

 

[j.w]

@Bertkins
I agree a lot of fish for that size pond.

 

[Tula]

Are you sure it's ich and not koi pox?

 

[Bertkins]

Tula, I'm about 65% to 75% it's Ich. However, based on the link JRS provided above, it could possible be anchor worm. The two decent size "lumps" on the fish's tail are pretty white though. That's why I'm inclined to believe it's ich.

Also, does anyone think the treatment could be causing the odd behavior? It does turn the water brown and smells a little strange.

 

[WaterGardener]

That doesn't sound like ich. Ich is tiny, very small oblong grains, not round or raised. It does sound more like carp pox, but that doesn't normally make the fish sick.

 

[Bertkins]

Do you have a KH testing kit?

That's an awful lot of fish for that sized pond. Since they are small, it might work for a while. But for long term, that's seriously overstocked.

I don't have a KH test kit. Where I live, we don't typically have water hardening issues. I can get one if necessary though.

 

[WaterGardener]

We have hard water here, too. But KH in the pond gets depleted over time and can cause you pH to swing up and down, or crash.

I consider KH testing essential, but not everyone does.

Your fish were fine for 2 weeks, then started having problems? Did anything change in that 2 week period?

When fish are flashing, I think of flukes. They can't be seen with the naked eye, only under a microscope. But they are very common and easy to treat. I use Fluke-M and it works very well.

Can you get pictures?

 

[Bertkins]

Thanks for the response WaterGardener. I ordered some Proform C Broad Spectrum Parasite Treatment yesterday. I should receive it tomorrow.

I finish the last of my 7-day treatment regimen of Crystalclear Knockout Plus on Thursday. If the fish are still exibiting symptoms, I'll start dosing with the Proform C. on Friday.

I may perform a 50% water change tomorrow evening to help dilute/clear out any Knockout plus still in the pond prior to starting the Proform C.

Unfortunately, I can't get good pics of the fish as they're laying on the bottom of the pond (it's 3-feet deep).

 

[WaterGardener]

Proform C will not kill flukes. It can be used with Fluke-M, and it will dissolve the Fluke-M powder.

When used that way, the usual course is to mix the fluke medication with the last dose of Proform C.

 

[Bertkins]

Update: I've completed the 7-day cycle of CrystalClear Knockout Plus. There has been a slight improvement in the overall health with the fish. However, all is still not well.

I've been watching my fish more closely and believe at least a couple of the fish are showing visible signs of anchor worm.

After performing a 50% water change this AM, I began my Proform C treatment and will perform all 3 doses over the next few days (I already ordered it so figured, why not use it). However, now that I'm definately seeing anchor worms and realizing that Proform C won't work on anchor worms, I'm thinking about using this product:

Has anybody tried this?

Also, I have not completely ruled out flukes because there are a few fish that are flashing, but not showing any visible signs of anchor worm. After a few days of dosing Proform C, I'll try that product I mentioned above. After that, then I'll try something to kill flukes.

Does this sound logical/reasonable?

 

[WaterGardener]

Can you get a picture of what you are seeing on your fish?

So far, you are just shooting in the dark and hoping to hit the right target. That's not the best way to go about this.

I would not use the Proform C until you know what you are dealing with. If it's anchor worm you will just be adding more stress to your fish for no reason.

It won't go bad, so why rush to use something you probably don't even need. I keep it as part of my medicine stash for the fish, but so far, knock on wood, I've never needed to use it.

Randomly treating your fish can weaken them with every treatment, making them even more susceptible to whatever comes along. So please find out what the problem is before doing anything else. At least give them the chance to recover before starting another treatment.

Dimilin is the go to medication to kill anchor worm. If that product does not contain Dimilin and you are not 100% sure that is what you are dealing with, I wouldn't use it.

Please realize that all these products you have been using in your pond are poisons. They were created to kill things and using them should not be taken lightly. There is always the chance that the fish could be the next victims, especially when they are overused, even when used at the proper dosage.

 

[Bertkins]

Here's a pic from a couple days ago: