High PH

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Good Evening Ponders,

I have had my 458 gallon pond up and running for several months. Today I tested my PH for the first time, it tested very high at 8.2. My other tests, nitrites, nitrates, and ammonia all were perfect. My tap water tests at 7.6. I will go and purchase some PH decreaser tomorrow unless someone has a better suggestion. My main question is why is my PH high and how detrimental will it be to my fish? Thanks!
 
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What fish do you keep in your pond ?
We normally have the same Ph as you here in the Southwest of the UK and our koi thrive in it.
As sddy says leave it be if its stable .

rgrds

Dave
 
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Leave it alone.

High pH is critical if ammonia is present. What's important is how balanced the pH remains through the day. Testing for hardness (kh) will tell you how stable your water is - shoot for 80 - 200 ppm and you shouldn't have major swings in your pH if all else is well.
 
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Sissy are you sure that your Ph is 9 ???
Below are two charts one to do with fish the other not but both put your Ph as being on its way to Detergent .
9 isnt good for fish especially koi they need a Ph of 7.5 to 8.0 the same requirements as Goldfish .
I would strongly suggest you get yours down somewhat otherwise you may loose your fish .
May I ask how it got to that level please, is it how it comes out from your water supply our own supply comes out at 8.0 ?
Ph 9 Is more suitable to Rift Valley Lakes, Chiclids from lake Tanganyika, Marine Fish and Invertibrates not Goldfish or koi.....

rgrds

Dave


PH scale copy.jpg
 

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slakker

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Our water is around varies in 7-8 range, and we use a limestone power mixed in plaster of paris mixture to buffer it. A local koi/pond expert that's been helping us mentioned that kois can live in more basic water but will start getting seriously stressed if below 6, and since pH is a log scale, that's very interesting.
 

crsublette

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Yep, agree with most of the posts above.


Stay away from those pond store pH downer or pH upper products. There are much cheaper and more pure alternatives out there. In particular, the pH downer products often use a phosphoric acid and this acid leaves a residual of phosphates that can encourage particular species to show rampant algae growth.


More important to have a stable and steady pH.


Be sure to aerate the tap water before you test it. Thread, pH level, post#13 and #14 shares examples of what you can use to aerate the tap water. Use one of these tools to fill a glass or bucket with the aerated tap water and possibly operate a small aquarium air stone/pump to further aerate it for a few hours or so, then use this water to fill your test vial. Carbon dioxide builds up in tap water and, with a low alkalinity, then the carbon dioxide creates a carbonic acid to artificially lower the tap water's pH. Aerating forces this carbonic acid to release carbon dioxide out of the water and this causes the pH to rise. This is quite likely why your tap water's pH is 7.6 and your pond water pH is 8.2 since the water gets aerated when entering the pond and further aerated by the pond's fountains, waterfalls, etc. Also, your water's pH likely increased to 8.2 after aeration due to all of the trace residuals from the water treatment plant.


Koi and goldfish can thrive quite well in 8.3~8.5 pH, within a variance of +/-.2, although their appearance may likely be different at this pH level. Keep in mind the liquid test kits have an accuracy of +/-.2 and test strips have an even worst accuracy.

The perfect pH for these fish depends on the fish's enzymes and blood pH. For koi and goldfish, the perfect pH is in the low 7s, around 7.0~7.4ish. pH is not an easy subject and it is not practical, depending on moneys or resources available, for everyone to keep their pH at this perfect level, but the fish are not significantly harmed if they are not at this perfect pH.

For example, my source water, pulled from a very deep aquifer, is liquid rock due to its extremely high alkalinity (16dkh, carbonate based, and 22dGH), that is also calcium deficient, so its pH is up to around 8.6~8.8. Here's a thread explaining how I am now stabilizing my pH at a lower level, how to stabilise pH at 7.0. Alkalinity and pH is mutually exclusive. When pH goes down, then this also means the alkalinity, as measured by KH, is lower as well. The lower your KH then the less stable and steady the pH. If your source water is quite alkaline as mine, then even just "top off" water for evaporation will keep the alkalinity and pH quite high. So, in my situation, I had to entirely recreate my own source water and only use this new water as my "top off" water. In my situation, harvesting rain water would be extremely beneficial, but it just does not seem to want to rain here in my area.


>> I have simply just copied and pasted much from my previous replies in this chemistry forum subsection. So, since school never ends no matter how old folk are, I task you with this homework to read the threads in this chemistry subsection. :cheerful: Good luck to ya. :claphands:
 
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It's fine, Mine stays at 7.8-8.1 alkalinity. I have a "Kangen Water Machine" that makes 2.5ph sanitary, 5.5ph for washing skin, 7 (neutral) clean water, 8ph for drinking, 9.5ph for drinking, and 11.5ph for like Dave said CLEANING. Anything with an higher ORP (oxidation reduction potential) is good for us and animals, but there is such thing as too high of alkalinity and I would say that anything above 9.5ph is too high as if we tried to drink the 11.5 ph water my machine makes it would dilute our stomach acids for a slow painful digestion :0000000057: and Im sure goes the same for fish as my mother found out the hard way when she bought a 10 gallon aquarium for her grandchildren and filled it with 9.5+ph water and her fish kept dying after a few days, after about ten fish I asked her what water she was using and when she changed to normal tap with conditioner, her fish are still alive going 3 weeks strong lol
 

sissy

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I have not lost a fish in 9 years and ph has been the same and tests done at the pet store are the same and not one problem yet .They seem to thrive in it because I gave 25 babies away already and 6 of them one couple took say they now have whiskers so guessing they were koi and we could not see them yet since they were so little .I have since had more babies appear from some where .Darn hiders ,I thought i got rid of all the babies .Oh well back to finding them homes also .Now who do i find to pawn these off on ,ummm
 
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I understand that koi may not tolerate a pH of 9.0, but goldfish certainly do. There are breeders who report goldfish thriving in ponds in which the pH goes above 10 in the evening. Goldfish have no problem with the diurnal changes in pond pH (rising during the day and dropping during the night) but can suffer shock from a sudden pH change. I have seen various "optimum pH" for goldfish. They vary widely and none provide an experimental source for the numbers.

Ammonia becomes more toxic with higher pH, so if you have a high pH, it's important to have zero ammonia.
 

sissy

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all my tests are zero and always have been and since koi are over 2 feet long after 9 years ,I guess it causes them no real harm .i only feed 3 or 4 times a week ,I guess there is exception to every thing
 

crsublette

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Yeah, I have seen many folk with koi and high pH don't have issues, but I would draw the ceiling at a pH of 9 and nothing higher.

I often refer to the aquaculture universities that actually research this stuff in test plots, aquaculture farms, and how other breeders maintain their ponds.

Also, these aquaculture farms often experience constant massive diurnal pH swings, but never had any fish die to it. Although, these pH swings would allow secondary ailments to infect the stressed fish, which then could cause its death.

As far as I am aware, fish must have a particular enzyme produced in their body to counteract the effects of a high pH and koi and goldfish lack a high concentration of this enzyme, unlike particular tilapia species which are known to have this enzyme at a high concentration and this allows them to be in lakes that have a pH of 10~11.
 

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