High Pond pH Levels...

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It would be a mistake to think of me as a source of knowledge. More like a fellow traveler in a journey of discovery. Until a week ago I'd never paid any attention to the hardness in our pond. It freaks me out a little bit to think that our really soft water was trying to suck the minerals out of the fish...

First things first - none of this is as simple as you will wish it to be. There are complex molecular reactions going on that you & I can't see so we must gain a 'virtual' understanding. Another big problem: googling yields results that are contradictory and sometimes just plain wrong.

There are just a few things that are really much simpler than you'd think. Extremely low pH acids and high pH caustics are both created by just one element, hydrogen (H). Hydrogen ions, that is. Either the absence or overabundance of H ions.

And for general purposes general hardness is addressed by just two chemicals, calcium and magnesium. There are other chemicals that can cause hardness, such as strontium, but apparently calcium and magnesium are much more common.

Everything else I've come across the last coupla days is more confusing. Such as, Epsom salt increases GH by adding magnesium. Table salt (from what I've read so far!) does not increase GH.

KH is raised most commonly with plain old baking soda, but that will bump your pH upwards. Waterbug made a comment about the impossibility of raising KH and lowering pH at the same time, and I think I might be beginning to understand that but not sure.

Heck, just adding a bubbler can raise pH by driving some of the CO2 out of your water.

Although it'll take a minute, it'd probably be good to report your hardness levels as ppm rather than drops of reagent.

What's the brand of your test kit(s)? Mars, also known as API, is really common. That's what we're using. AFAIK test kits should be tossed after a coupla seasons. Sometimes they're bad right outta the box. Operator error must be considered too - are you rinsing the tubes out good? If you were testing more than one thing at a time, are you keeping the caps sorted? (I'm pretty sure I swapped caps the other day when I was testing KH & GH)

This guide seems OK

Although they want to sell you stuff, this one seems pretty straightforward

If you come across some good info, please post. I need more input. From what I've read so far, there are some fish that absolutely can't handle the hardness levels that you're reporting, but koi/goldfish aren't in those groups.

Since we're trying to raise our hardness levels, I haven't looked into softening the water.
 

sissy

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Makes me think we may put to much emphasis on water quality and driving ourselves nuts .You don't see those koi gardens in parks really pay much attention to the water and even koi breeders seem to not worry much all they seem to worry about is what breeds with what .I was looking on you tube at koi ponds in Japan and seems they never test there water at least by the way they talk .Makes you really wonder .I check my filters clean the catch filter on the top of them ,net the bottom and check the pumps and thats it for me and I have only lost one fish since 2004 and that one jumped out last spring as I did not have the screening on yet ,my fault .
 
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Good points, Sissy. I'm not so much worried about my levels of anything, as I am about the murkiness of my water. Both ponds same thing. I want to get rid of the floating stuff that is making it impossible to see the bottom of my pond. Before I started up the Skippy filter, I could see the bottom. The early warm weather in February got the algae growing in leaps and bounds (string and edge algae) and then the murkiness started up. That's how the water levels came up. I've put quilt batting at the beginning of the waterfall on koi pond, and where the stream recirculates the water in the goldfish pond, cleaning out the batting everyday, and no change in 5 days. Maybe just need to wait for more warm weather, get the good bacteria up and going, but it's frustrating. Should I net the bottom again, or leave it? :) I'll try anything.
 
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My pH drives me nuts, so I just ignore it. A recent test showed my pH at 8.2 after I cleaned the Winter muck. Keep in mind that half of this muck is pine needles and pinecones (my pond is virtually surrounded by pine trees, with a locust tree directly overhead). My kh and gh always seem to balance out around 40 and 120 ppm respectively, regardless of what I've tried, but I would still expect that with all the pine droppings in the water, my pH would be really low. Ah well, the fish are all happy and healthy, so there's no reason to mess with it.
 
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Many people do think pine needles are acidic. Rain rain water is probably the biggest acid source most people have. But many people think rain water is pH neutral.

Decomposition can also be a source. Anything organic including pine needles.

Conversion of chemicals like ammonia is another source. Some people with heavy fish loads have to add a cup or two of baking soda per week to keep KH up. But most water gardens with hard water don't really have to do anything.

I never like testing pH either. I just tested KH and GH and then I knew pH was OK.
 

j.w

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I tested my rain water up here and it says ph 7 so it is neutral...............well it was the day I tested it anyways. We do have acidic soil and all the acid loving plants love it! Well water tested 7 also on several occasions.
 

addy1

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I tested my rain water up here and it says ph 7 so it is neutral...............well it was the day I tested it anyways. We do have acidic soil and all the acid loving plants love it! Well water tested 7 also on several occasions.

Better than my 5.4-5.5 ph well water. My carnivorous bog plants love being watered with the garden hose!
 
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Decomposition can also be a source. Anything organic including pine needles.

Exactly! That's why I was so surprised that my pH was still so high, especially at that time of year. Honestly I can't figure out what is driving the pH so high though. The kh/gh levels are nearly identical to what we see in our aquariums, and even the bare tanks tend to level out around pH 6.2 after a week.
 
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Exactly! That's why I was so surprised that my pH was still so high, especially at that time of year. Honestly I can't figure out what is driving the pH so high though. The kh/gh levels are nearly identical to what we see in our aquariums, and even the bare tanks tend to level out around pH 6.2 after a week.
Yeah, but generally the high volume source of acid in a pond is the decomposition of fish poo because it decomposes so fast. So someone feeding a couple of pounds of fish food a week acid is a serious problem. Normal water gardens, feeding a hand full of food a week, refilling with hard water, never have any problem at all.
 
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I tested my rain water up here and it says ph 7 so it is neutral...............well it was the day I tested it anyways.

From EPA web site:
Pure water has a pH of 7.0. However, normal rain is slightly acidic because carbon dioxide (CO2) dissolves into it forming weak carbonic acid, giving the resulting mixture a pH of approximately 5.6 at typical atmospheric concentrations of CO2.

The USGS map shows rain in your area to be in the 5.5 to 5.3 on average.

Rain pH can fluctuate, but more toward being lower than higher. For example lightning in thunderstorms produce nitrogen oxides which can drive rain pH down below 3.

To get rain with 7 pH would mean there is no CO2 in the rain, which isn't really possible. Maybe the container had some dust or something that produced an incorrect reading? Maybe the test kit is off?
 

j.w

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I'll have to check again on the pH and see what it says. My kit is old as the hills so could be off a bit. I always rinse it out w/ well water before testing and well checks out at about the same as the rain. Could take it to the pet store and get it checked too.
 

addy1

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Mine was the same as our well, in the 5.5 range. Except the well actually tested at 5.9 yesterday. I have liquid fertilizer I add to some plants, that stuff drops the ph to the 2 range, so I have to adjust the ph back up before I water.
 

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