How much is this REALLY going to cost ?

[capewind]

How important is it to not have shelves? I sort of need them because there is a conduit line preventing me from digging deeper in one spot (you can see the shelf in my original pic above). I know predators are a problem, but my property will be fenced in (hopefully keeping racoons out). Herons would be the only threat. I like the idea of a shelf aesthetically, but if predators are that big of a threat I can just dig much deeper and narrower.

It seems that every yard is different. Do you have an issue with racoons now? Some people never have an issue, and others do. For bird related issues, some folks have netted their ponds. My yard is fenced, and I've only had minor issues. Last summer, something got ahold of one of my koi (she was probably 9-10" at the time) and left a hole in her face, but she got away. That pond has no shelves (this was a space issue, I wanted max water volume), measures about 11 x 18 with the max depth sloping down to 5' ... upper pond is 8 x 18, with depths as shallow as inches (due to gravel, supposed to be a bog), with the deepest spot (for lilies) being close to 3' ... Either late last fall, or early winter, we found a shubunkin out of the pond with vertical scratches (possibly claw marks) and over the course of the winter, lost a handful of comets and shubunkins (no bodies found) ... The next pond going in (20x25 liner) will be close to 3' and no shelves, but this is being built for all of hubby's lilies (although I have young/small koi that will use it for awhile to grow out in) ...

I just met a gentlemen last week who stopped by as someone told him we had koi for sale. He lives about 10 minutes away, and says something cleaned out his pond over the winter. Didnt see it, but said he had nearly as many koi, and in the same size ranges as ours. We have about 30 koi outside ranging 7-8" to 23-24" ... He bought two babies that were in the 7-9" range ... He wants to give them a week or so. If these two dont get eaten (I hope not!), he is coming back for 3 larger fish.

There are other folks who have never had an issue.

 

[Mmathis]

How many Koi can you comfortably fit with 3000 gallons?

I've wondered the same thing. I found this "fish load calculator" that might be helpful.

http://www.your-garden-ponds-center.com/fish-load-calculator.html

But it's going to depend a lot on how much filtration you have, and I'm sure there are other variables to consider. When I plugged in my pond (I used the square foot AND the surface area figures), it gave me different figures for each. It showed that using the "surface area" parameters, I could hold LESS fish-inches. Guessing that is because surface area determines how much oxygen is available, and SA is more important than total volume [experts, please chime in, here....].

 

[capewind]

How many Koi can you comfortably fit with 3000 gallons?

This will really depend on how well your water is filtered (effeciency of your filter(s), plants, etc). I've pushed for a formula I could remember. There are a few based on surface area, water volume, etc but the one I go by is for the first koi, you need at least 1000 gallons of water. For each additional koi, you need an additional 200-300 gallons of water. Your water quality, via testing, is the only way to get an accurate number. Koi being bigger are going to produce more wastes.

 

[HTH]

Understocking is always better for the fish.

You need to think about what will happen when the power goes out.
If the fish load is such that they will not last long without the power a generator is a must.

I expect some people are getting tired of me sounding like a broken record.

 

[sissy]

koi get big and sure wish someone had told me .I never thought that 9 years later my little fish would be over 2 feet long .I only feed them 3 times a week .They eat the muck on the liner and the tadpoles

 

[HTH]

Either my tadpoles are not tasty or I need more koi.

A frog or two arrived just before I drained the pond. At least I will not have to listen to them croak while it is empty.

 

[Mmathis]

I expect some people are getting tired of me sounding like a broken record.

Not at all. We learn by repetition.

 

[capewind]

Understocking is always better for the fish.

You need to think about what will happen when the power goes out.
If the fish load is such that they will not last long without the power a generator is a must.

I expect some people are getting tired of me sounding like a broken record.

All good points

With 8500-9000 gallons, and the PRESENT sizes of my fish (evenly sized from the smallest to largest), my pond doesnt remotely look crowded, and it always tests 0/0 for ammonia and nitrites, but I want to play it safe and place some of the Koi. I'm about to get reduced down to 6500 gallons, and know our water quality will still support the load (bog area, once all bog will be close to 40% of our pond volume), but if we dont get the big pond in on schedule next year, with the growth, I'll be pushing the envelope CROWD wise, more than I want to go. I've made the choice to place my duplicate looking koi, but it would be so much easier not to be in the position of needing to place any. Then of course there is the issue that fish can and do multiply LOL.

 

[capewind]

Either my tadpoles are not tasty or I need more koi.

A frog or two arrived just before I drained the pond. At least I will not have to listen to them croak while it is empty.

Mine dont seem to enjoy fresh frog. All last year it was a daily challenge to evict the bullfrogs (I was collecting babies) ... Not collecting babies this year, so letting the couple we have at the moment stay. If they decide to bring their friends and family however, they will be evicted LOL Hoping to find a way to net the lily pond when hubby gets it in, as I still have a lot of small babies in the group moving out there. Anything under 6" is fair game for a bullfrog.

 

[HTH]

Up till last year we would hunt down the frogs and relocate them. We were worried that they were upsetting the neighbors with their racket. But last year we gave it up as a bad deal. Had a few comments but nobody was upset that I could tell. There are some ugly sounding frogs.

 

[sissy]

I have seen aggie catch from suck on it and spit out the parts she does not like and then I get the task of scooping the rest of the body out with the net .Sometimes 6 or 7 frog bodies in the mornings .I have not yet caught bert doing it .But guessing he does .My koi gotta love them :cheerful:

 

[ponder630]

Since I've moved into my home that had a pond and caught the ponding bug, I too want to re-do the pond after learning a lot more. I think the two most important think, in my mind, that I wish my current pond has is a skimmer and a bottom drain.

My pond is about 1000 gallons and it has 3 kois in there already. I think thats too many already, but they were already in there when I moved in. My deepest part is maybe 3' but averages about 2 feet and the fish survived this winter with a deicer to keep a hole in and I had an airstone. I also wish my pond has a deep area about 4' I read is a good depth.

I spent a lot of time netting out junk on the bottom of the pond and surface of the pond last season. This year, I built a bio filter and built a waterfall , upgraded my pump so it turns my pond over twice in an hour and last night I bought a in-pond skimmer from Tetra. I am very happy with what the skimmer did within the first 2-3 hours, by night fall my pond was crystal clear. With a better pump/filter I already noticed I'm doing less work now than I was last year.

Now I just need to keep up with the stuff on the bottom, it is clean now, but I know it'll get messy again.

I think if I were in your shoes, it's much easier to do them now than retro fit it in later.

 

[bean6924]

Since I've moved into my home that had a pond and caught the ponding bug, I too want to re-do the pond after learning a lot more. I think the two most important think, in my mind, that I wish my current pond has is a skimmer and a bottom drain.

My pond is about 1000 gallons and it has 3 kois in there already. I think thats too many already, but they were already in there when I moved in. My deepest part is maybe 3' but averages about 2 feet and the fish survived this winter with a deicer to keep a hole in and I had an airstone. I also wish my pond has a deep area about 4' I read is a good depth.

I spent a lot of time netting out junk on the bottom of the pond and surface of the pond last season. This year, I built a bio filter and built a waterfall , upgraded my pump so it turns my pond over twice in an hour and last night I bought a in-pond skimmer from Tetra. I am very happy with what the skimmer did within the first 2-3 hours, by night fall my pond was crystal clear. With a better pump/filter I already noticed I'm doing less work now than I was last year.

Now I just need to keep up with the stuff on the bottom, it is clean now, but I know it'll get messy again.

I think if I were in your shoes, it's much easier to do them now than retro fit it in later.

yes. I definitely will put in a bottom drain and a skimmer with mech / bio filtration. I just don't think I can get much more than 1800 gallons, but it would be nice to have about 5 koi and 5 or 10 goldies. Is this overstocked with good filtration?

 

[capewind]

The key words were good filtration. It wouldnt be an issue for awhile, as koi are usually small when people get them, but you need to keep in mind their size when full grown. With GOOD filtration, 4-5 koi wouldnt be unreasonable, but I'd go easy on the goldfish, just a few, like 4-5 ... The GF wont add the load that the koi will, individually, but GF tend to multiply, so be prepared in a year or two, what you will do with the extras (get used to Craigslist, or find friends with ponds LOL) ...

 

[capewind]

I have seen aggie catch from suck on it and spit out the parts she does not like and then I get the task of scooping the rest of the body out with the net .Sometimes 6 or 7 frog bodies in the mornings .I have not yet caught bert doing it .But guessing he does .My koi gotta love them :cheerful:

Yup, I think of your Aggie often LOL.