Is there too much oxygenation?

Discussion in 'Winterizing Your Pond' started by Dmitry, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. Dmitry

    Dmitry

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    Hi , I have natural pond 30 over 100 feet with deepest end of 6 feet .last year I cleaned it with heavy equipment and stocked with native blue gill and some throut . They did well in summer , eating and being active . I’d say about 20 fish different sizes. We had harsh winter in CT with ice covering pond for extended time. I assume that’s why all of them died. See some dead fish on a bottom , rest I assum already decomposed. Can’t see any swimming . I’m considering getting aeration for this year and winter . Looking at sets on amazon for around $600. But they all are rated for big ponds. . Am I gonna hurt fish if I will run something like this
    AirPro Pond Aerator Kit by Living Water - Rocking Piston Pond Aeration System for Up to 1 Acre - Minimize Odor, Prevent Fish Kill - Includes 1/4 HP Compressor, 100' Weighted Tubing, Membrane Diffuser https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FM6DFPY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_jChJAb9WBZPW7
     
    Dmitry, Feb 20, 2018
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  2. Dmitry

    Dmitry

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    image.jpg
     
    Dmitry, Feb 20, 2018
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  3. Dmitry

    sissy sissy

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    I can't see air hurting them .But could it chill the water to much for that type fish ,I don't know .Do you keep an opening in the ice for gas exchange
     
    sissy, Feb 20, 2018
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  4. Dmitry

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    keep the diffuser near the surface in the winter and an area clear of snow (if you can, as this will help the algae continue, which also gives O2 to the water column). Keeping a hole open in the ice allows for toxic gases to escape as well as oxygenation to occur . NO measurable amount of oxygenation will happen with the rise of the bubbles; it's the turbulence at the surface where it happens. If you have much decaying organics, they'll continue to decay during the winter months and this process also uses available O2. A lot of us are using pond breathers--you might want to investigate. I'd imagine you'd need more than one for a pond your size, though.
     
    brokensword, Feb 20, 2018
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  5. Dmitry

    Dmitry

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    I see , do you use breathers only or diffuser with compressor as well?
     
    Dmitry, Mar 1, 2018
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  6. Dmitry

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    Currently, I only use one breather. I used to use only an aerator, but one winter, the line got pinched/frozen and it's more a pita to then have to melt open a hole and get a new aerator. I've used a breather now for 3 winters and think they're a better bet.
     
    brokensword, Mar 1, 2018
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  7. Dmitry

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    Fish live well in Niagara Falls and their is no such thing as super chilled water on planet earth, as the water on planet earth is not pure and contains minerals and salts that prevent this. I run my ponds all winter long for last 27 years with no death of fish. Top so called KOI experts .(Who never wintered their koi) tried to tell me running water would cool the water and super chill it. Never ever happened in 27 years I have been keeping goldfish and Koi outside in -40 below with running water. Lakes and ponds around here in Alberta have suffered fish deaths some winters and even hot summers. Notice that it happens in "small lakes and ponds" and not rivers ot streams..... Not enough water movement and thick ice can cause fish to suffocate as they run out of oxygen. Top experts recomend accelerators to improve water condition. Trout do best in very very cold lakes up here in Canada and taste best if you catch them right out of the ice in winter. Trout in warmer lakes do not taste as fresh and are not as healthy. Same with Pike and Whitefish. They are all cold water fish and love ICE COLD water but still need good supply of oxygen.
    I would however suggest that the fish still need a "quite" area to rest under the ice as well. The accelerator should be big enough to keep hole open and not too big that their is no quite zones for fish to slumber the winter away.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    callingcolleen1, Mar 2, 2018
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  8. Dmitry

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    sissy sissy

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    A lot of those reports are sometimes old scare tactics .Just like all the things reported on these days .It is made to scare people
     
    sissy, Mar 2, 2018
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  10. Dmitry

    MitchM

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    I'm just a middle expert, so you'll have to excuse me.
    What is an accelerator?

    .
     
    MitchM, Mar 2, 2018
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  11. Dmitry

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    and sometimes the earth really is round...not that you have to believe everything, but don't miss the sign when you reach the edge of the world...wouldn't want to fall off, you know!
     
    brokensword, Mar 2, 2018
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  12. Dmitry

    MitchM

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    Aerators can still freeze over, it depends on your weather conditions.
    Are you able to introduce any submerged plants that can help with oxygenation?

    You can over oxygenate a body of water but that is by using hydrogen peroxide in excess quantities.
    Regular water movement/aeration will equalize oxygen with the ambient air, that's it.

    .
     
    MitchM, Mar 2, 2018
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  13. Dmitry

    sissy sissy

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    My dad taught me to be strong as only the weak fail and to never let anyone tell me different .I have worked along side men all my life and never failed .The weak fail that is why there is a drug epidemic in this world ,WEAK MIND WEAK BODY .My hubby was always proud of that .I myself feel the more oxygen you add the less water quality problems you will have .I have air stones even in my filter.I feel if you keep plants in your filters they will use up the nutrients that are coming into the filter before they have a chance to reenter the pond .Oxygen helps the plants grow also .I do have to trim the roots on the plants every month or two .
     
    sissy, Mar 2, 2018
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  14. Dmitry

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    Ok. Ha ha ha... its a giant air pump spelled wrong. I won't use them again either. I did let my air pump run this year and yes the line froze.... I just leave my pumps run all winter and that is best when you have proper large underwater filters
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
    callingcolleen1, Mar 3, 2018
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  15. Dmitry

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    Top experts tried to tell me that Koi would never live in ice cold running water and I even had a top expert from the UK who tried to tell me so on a facebook KOI site. I told him to go look at my u -Tube channel and see my very large old koi doing just fine in ice cold running water. The guy was so obsessed that he sent me several text messages and was amazed. Then he said his koi were too expensive to leave out all winter. I have a now over 2142 subs on my rapidly growing channel and just one of my videos now has over 600,000 views.

    Super chilled water can only happen if you have pure water, and water on earth is not pure. Super chilled water can happen in the atmosphere and in a lab, or you can do it yourself with pure distilled water in a freezer.
    Do more research yourself. I have 27 years of research.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
    callingcolleen1, Mar 3, 2018
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  16. Dmitry

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    callingcolleen1, Mar 3, 2018
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  17. Dmitry

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    plenty of science to back up what I've said and I'm echoing what Meyer has told us. But, I'm sure you think he didn't know anything either...all is well because as long as you're recommending the heater and now a cover, no one's fish should die from your advice.
     
    brokensword, Mar 3, 2018
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  18. Dmitry

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    I have managed to ama
    Neither you, Mitch or anybody else I know has wintered their Koi or Goldfish in Canada for 27 years. I have many well respected friends on my Facebook that told a few so called KOI experts from down south off when they too tried to ridicule me. I have seen many friends over the many years lose all their koi after one long bad winter. Even our KOI Guy here in town is amazed that I have had such success and sadly he too lost lots of his big koi over the years. I tried to give him advice but he thought his pond was too big to freeze that hard and all he used was a big air pump and that too froze off.

    I only covered my ponds last two years as I now have 4th pond that is 5 feet deep {and it flows to three other connecting ponds} and the one 1500 watt heater was strugging to keep holes opened when it was only -20 and I have to face temps down below minus 40 degrees and worse, just like Mitch.

    You should be respectful cause I have such vast experience wintering Koi. I liked and respected Meyer very much,as he was very helpful and had much knowledge, but he never wintered KOI in harsh conditions either.
    You should also be very respectful to Sissy as she is a very valuable and helpful member of this forum.

    Over the many years I have wintered my ponds, I too had problems and worked them all out. Knowledge comes with first hand experience and years of struggling in this very harsh environment. And it is true that pond water cannot be super chilled as water here that runs off the land and out of our faucets are rich in minerals and salts and that prevent water from getting super chilled. If you are worried you can always add extra salt to your pond.

    AIR PUMPS the truth is that this method works for people that don't have severe winters and it should also be noted that the air pump should suit the size of the pond so that the fish can relax in a quiet deep area away from the pump to relax and conserve energy. Air pumps tend to condensate and freeze shut in severe winter weather and that makes them unsuitable for harsh winters.

    POND BREATHERS are not good for severe winters either as the whole pond freezes way too hard when its minus 20 and 40 below for weeks on end. There is no sense in keeping a small hole open when the rest of the pond is frozen solid as the large fish will most likely be dead as they run out of space and air under the ice in our small backyard ponds. So please quit recommending the pond breather to people with koi and goldfish in harsh climates. If you do recommend this pond breather please recommend that they have a cheap 1500 watt cattle heater or 1250 watt pond heater as backup for severe weather.

    POND HEATERS ... Everybody should have one if they have severe winter weather of minus 10 or below for extended periods. If the weather is going down to minus 20 Celsius for a short time and the ground is not froze solid 4 or more feet down, then they should be ok, but if the severe weather lasts for days and the ground is freezing very hard, then you can expect your pond to have at least two feet of ice without a pond heater. Most large fish and KOI will not survive two feet of ice unless your backyard pond is a very deep large lake...

    THE BEST WAY TO WINTER your pond is to have pumps and good filters all below the ice, that way they will not freeze too hard and run the water close to the heater to evenly circulate the heat in the water.
    It would be best if your ponds were designed like mine, as I have the largest Koi in the top ponds, and flow the water like a river or creek down to the bottom pond where ideally it is stocked with lots of plants and only small fish. The freshest water is always in the top ponds and the water level in the upper ponds are always pumped to a maximum and then the excess water flows back down to the bottom ponds. The upper ponds will always have the least amount of ice as the water level is always at the same level as the ice. THIS IS IMPORTANT cause that way you will have the least amount of ice as the moving water erodes the ice very quickly and that is why the rivers and streams breaks up the ice first, weeks before the lakes and ponds. Take a look at your local river and notice how it will have an ice breakup weeks before any lake in the area....
    Listen to me and you will learn much from my old pond videos before I covered the ponds
    Notice how the water in the upper ponds is at the same level as the ice. This keeps ice down very well...

     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
    callingcolleen1, Mar 3, 2018
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  19. Dmitry

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    The reason that KOI are more hardy than goldfish is because when the water temps drop off fast in the fall, you will see the goldfish lay sideways, kind of in shock, but the koi never do this. The goldfish will survive and correct their position after they have adjusted to the sudden extreme cold water, and my water temps are always just barely above freezing. Since I added the newest largest deepest top pond two years ago, I have not noticed the goldfish lay sideways, and this is because I have a much greater volume of water and it takes longer for the water to cool off, so the goldfish are not in shock. I have over the very many years noticed that the goldfish can struggle some winters and the fancy types have the most problems as they are severely inbred to create the fancy look. This also is another reason that they are less hardy than Koi.

    People only think that they are more hardly cause they are usually all that is left after the big koi die off under the ice from lack of oxygen. The goldfish are way smaller compared most KOI and they swim much slower and use much less oxygen.

    I could care little about what the so called KOI experts say about wintering ponds, as I have yet to find one that has wintered their koi in our extreme Canadian winters for as long as I have. I also have proven many of them wrong.
     
    callingcolleen1, Mar 3, 2018
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  20. Dmitry

    MitchM

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    I haven't kept koi or outside fish for 27 years Colleen, but the laws of science apply to everyone's pond the same.
    You found something that works for you, that's great.
    If you truly understand why it works for you, then you'll also understand why you method doesn't work for everyone.

    If we took your pond setup and placed it in my yard, the cattle panels would blow away, the 1500 watt heater would freeze over, the ice would form thick enough to freeze the spillways so there was no pond to pond circulation and you would be on the forum looking for help.;)

    We would gladly help you, using the laws of science.

    (I'm also wondering how someone with 27 years of experience could completely miss something like how ammonia can burn fish gills from the other thread. You may have become too complacent with your 27 years.)

    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
    MitchM, Mar 3, 2018
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