I'm so upset! Two dead Koi! l

[callingcolleen1]

If I was a betting person, I would definitely take that bet.

...and the myth that moving water will prevent a pond from freezing over is just that - a myth.
I have 2 feet of ice to prove it. Having vigorous circulation on my pond only extended my ice free time by about 4 weeks.
For some to say otherwise, (not you, @audioenvy) shows a lack of knowledge of how/why ice forms on a pond plus a lot of arrogance
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you actually are very wrong and I have proven that moving water will keep the ice down, if the water is kept at a constant level like in my upper ponds, that get very little ice, and when they do ice up, it quickly dissolves to nothing on a warm day. I have shown you this in my videos time and time again, and you always wondered how come I have next to no ice and I keep telling you the same thing and showing you it in all my videos. My bottom pond however gets very thick ice because the water level falls below the level of the ice. If you top up the bottom pond to the level of the ice, on a nice warm day, the ice will quickly melt away fast. You must not have been watching my videos very close, and I am not arrogant either !!!

If you still have a problem understanding this, go and check out your nearest river or creek, and in the spring it will break up and the ice will be gone sometimes two full months before the lakes and ponds..... It is you @MitchM that imply that people who lost their koi, using only the pond breather, must have used it incorrectly...

 

[callingcolleen1]

People seem to be apprehensive about cold water and any circulation, from pumps or aeration will equalize the pond water temperature.
I will always recommend a backup for periods of ice cover.
Aerators work well in milder climates, 2 pond breathers would be a good idea in colder climates.

....or you could have your pond in a back yard protected from the wind, surrounded closely by other houses, covered with cattle panels and plastic....

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MY PONDS were NOT ALWAYS Covered!!! AND I HAVE NOT used the heater for two full weeks and I have next to no ice. It is because the water level in the upper ponds is at the SAME LEVEL as the ICE !!!!! The Flowing Water cuts down the ice very quick, but you would not know that cause you do not have flowing water all winter

You have next to no expertise when it comes to running water and ice, and you never run your pond all winter and I have for 27 years, so you should say nothing when you know nothing about running a pond all winter for 27 years. I know a lot about running water and how to keep my ice down, while you know nothing about how to keep ice down and that is why you have a pile of ice and only minnows can survive in your pond. To ridicule me and say I have arrogance is very rude on your part and I will NOT TOLERRATE that at all!!
It does not make much difference if I have wind or no wind, I still get some wind and - 45 below zero just like you. Other people in this sheltered town have lost their koi and cannot understand like you, how come my ponds have so little ice while one block away my neighbors pond was frozen very deep. I have lots of success in wintering koi and I am now well respected in this town as my koi have survived for 27 years outside and I think you should review my pond thread. I will be happy to help you winter your koi if you ever get any. You would do well and learn more from others that have much expertise like me, if you listen more and pay attention to others who are very successful instead of making fun of them!

 

[callingcolleen1]

I think we agree on the ice thing and the gas exchange thing. What I'm not sure of is why there is seemingly a reluctance on the part of many to introduce air into the pond in winter. In order to sufficiently homogenize the oxygen and remove CO2 there will also be a homogenization of temperature. You can't mix the water enough to prevent oxygen-depleted zones and remove CO2 without also equalizing the water temperature. If a breather is working correctly, it is homogenizing the water including the water temperature. So why not keep an aerator running as well?
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aerator's seem to all fail when temps fall like below -25 as they tend to condensate with water droplets and then freeze shut for everybody in this ice cold town, including our local KOI guy that has a big pond with big fish, his froze off and quit working and he lost all his koi, as did many others. Only a pump and filter under the water seems to survive when temps are down to -30 and -45 below zero,

 

[MitchM]

I think this thread has ended it’s purpose.

 

[Becky]

I agree. Time and time again we get this same problem - people think that what works for them works for everyone, when that may not necessarily be the case.

Experience with one pond can only help other people with the exact same situation - ie same climate, dimensions, stock, etc. That is why forums are good - someone can come here for advice and hear what has worked for a range of other people and then decide what action they want to take themselves.

When members start thinking that they are right and everyone else is wrong, it makes the forum a miserable place to be.

We are all here to work together and help people, so try not to lose the bigger picture.