My new check valve is not working as it should

[CHY]

When I turn off my pump there is a thumping sound about every second or two, which I assume is the check valve flapper opening and then closing. This is then allowing the water in my raised bog filter to flow back into the pond.

This is my first experience building a pond. I am hoping some of you guys with more experience can advise me on this.

Here are the details of my pond setup:

• Pond area is 12' X 15' and about 3 feet deep.
• Bog area is raised above the pond. It is 4' X 8' and about 1' deep. It is bottom fed, so the water is pushed up through the gravel to feed the roots. The tubing at the bottom is 2" PVC with slits cut in it spaced about 2" apart.
• The skimmer has a submersible pump inside it. It is a Helix Pond Skimmer. The pump is a Helix 4200GPM.
• The travel from the pump outlet to the bog inlet is 2" PVC with a couple of elbows. The pipe length is about 18' long and raises from 3' below ground up to ground level to feed the bog.
• The Check Valve is attached directly to the 2" outlet on the pump itself. It is made by Jackel. Here is the Amazon link:
• https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K8738CG/ref=ewc_pr_img_3?smid=A2JIG2D2ZKIQO8&psc=1

Like I said, everything works fine until I turn off the pump, then the thumping sound occurs.

I have taken the pump put and inspected it and the check valve appears to be in good shape. I even pass a garden hose into it and verify that the flapper is closing and holding water. So by all accounts it should be working.

Is this some sort of anti siphon issue? Maybe there is not enough water pressure to close the flapper correctly?
Perhaps I need a check valve with a spring-loaded flapper?

 

[Lisak1]

Hmmm... is the check valve oriented in the right direction?

 

[CHY]

Hmmm... is the check valve oriented in the right direction?

Yes it is. And while the pump is running the water flows beautifully into the bog.

 

[Lisak1]

@GBBUDD any ideas here?

 

[GBBUDD]

When I turn off my pump there is a thumping sound about every second or two, which I assume is the check valve flapper opening and then closing. This is then allowing the water in my raised bog filter to flow back into the pond.

This is my first experience building a pond. I am hoping some of you guys with more experience can advise me on this.

Here are the details of my pond setup:

• Pond area is 12' X 15' and about 3 feet deep.
• Bog area is raised above the pond. It is 4' X 8' and about 1' deep. It is bottom fed, so the water is pushed up through the gravel to feed the roots. The tubing at the bottom is 2" PVC with slits cut in it spaced about 2" apart.
• The skimmer has a submersible pump inside it. It is a Helix Pond Skimmer. The pump is a Helix 4200GPM.
• The travel from the pump outlet to the bog inlet is 2" PVC with a couple of elbows. The pipe length is about 18' long and raises from 3' below ground up to ground level to feed the bog.
• The Check Valve is attached directly to the 2" outlet on the pump itself. It is made by Jackel. Here is the Amazon link:
• https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K8738CG/ref=ewc_pr_img_3?smid=A2JIG2D2ZKIQO8&psc=1

Like I said, everything works fine until I turn off the pump, then the thumping sound occurs.

I have taken the pump put and inspected it and the check valve appears to be in good shape. I even pass a garden hose into it and verify that the flapper is closing and holding water. So by all accounts it should be working.

Is this some sort of anti siphon issue? Maybe there is not enough water pressure to close the flapper correctly?
Perhaps I need a check valve with a spring-loaded flapper?

That was my first guess that it was in the wrong direction but the model you bought clearly shows flow direction, so UNOLESS YOU REMOVED THE STICKER I GUESS THATS NOT IT.
CHECK VALVES ARE NOT HIGH ON MY LIST FOR WORKING AS DESIGNED. the more back pressure the better if you don't have much the spring inside can be stronger opening the flap and as the pressure builds it can push the flap closed . while these can be installed horizontally. They have a up and down to work or work the best. look at it like a door if the door is like what we walk through if water was coming to the door only half the water would hit the door while the rest would go around the open side of the door. if the flaps hinge is on the bottom as the water comes to the door the water starts to back up closing the flap before too much water has a chance to get by. SO if the flap is not aligned correctly it too can caveatate making the noise your talking about.

my guess is you have a spring valve and not a flapper. the flapper has a spring on the hinge that will close the flap when the power goes out. A spring check valve is like a pyramid on a pole with a spring on the pole that pushes the pyramid closed when the power goes out . These have to be installed vertically if not they have uneven pressure and can caveatate.

a check valve is to aid use in keeping water in the line or stop water so a syphon doesn't empty a bog or pond. instead of a check valve that by design work when the power goes out . if your trying to stop a syphon then a vacuum breaker is more to my liking. it could be as easy as a hole in the pipe somewhere where the water will spray out when the pump in on but is contained . but when the power goes out it breaks the syphon by sucking in air.
or there is my choice the syphon breaker which is a check valve in reverse, when the power is on it shuts the spring valve. when the power goes out the spring opens. this lets in air and breaks the syphon.

 

[CHY]

That was my first guess that it was in the wrong direction but the model you bought clearly shows flow direction, so UNOLESS YOU REMOVED THE STICKER I GUESS THATS NOT IT.
CHECK VALVES ARE NOT HIGH ON MY LIST FOR WORKING AS DESIGNED. the more back pressure the better if you don't have much the spring inside can be stronger opening the flap and as the pressure builds it can push the flap closed . while these can be installed horizontally. They have a up and down to work or work the best. look at it like a door if the door is like what we walk through if water was coming to the door only half the water would hit the door while the rest would go around the open side of the door. if the flaps hinge is on the bottom as the water comes to the door the water starts to back up closing the flap before too much water has a chance to get by. SO if the flap is not aligned correctly it too can caveatate making the noise your talking about.

my guess is you have a spring valve and not a flapper. the flapper has a spring on the hinge that will close the flap when the power goes out. A spring check valve is like a pyramid on a pole with a spring on the pole that pushes the pyramid closed when the power goes out . These have to be installed vertically if not they have uneven pressure and can caveatate.

a check valve is to aid use in keeping water in the line or stop water so a syphon doesn't empty a bog or pond. instead of a check valve that by design work when the power goes out . if your trying to stop a syphon then a vacuum breaker is more to my liking. it could be as easy as a hole in the pipe somewhere where the water will spray out when the pump in on but is contained . but when the power goes out it breaks the syphon by sucking in air.
or there is my choice the syphon breaker which is a check valve in reverse, when the power is on it shuts the spring valve. when the power goes out the spring opens. this lets in air and breaks the syphon.

I took the check valve off so that I could look and feel inside it. It sure looks like a flapper (just like you would see inside a toilet bowl. I see no evidence of it being spring loaded. And when I pour water into the valve the flapper closes and holds the water. So I am stumped as to why it fails to work correctly once it is installed on the pump and the gravity of water from the bog begins to flow back into the pond.

I truly appreciate your feedback, but I am still not sure what I should actually do to resolve this. Is a syphon breaker something I can buy?

 

[GBBUDD]

I took the check valve off so that I could look and feel inside it. It sure looks like a flapper (just like you would see inside a toilet bowl. I see no evidence of it being spring loaded. And when I pour water into the valve the flapper closes and holds the water. So I am stumped as to why it fails to work correctly once it is installed on the pump and the gravity of water from the bog begins to flow back into the pond.

I truly appreciate your feedback, but I am still not sure what I should actually do to resolve this. Is a syphon breaker something I can buy?

Yup 30 bucks at any Home depot or box store plumbing supply . 30 bucks is all you need they have electric and such not needed for our purpose

 

[CHY]

I think I may be unable to use an anti siphone valve because my plumbing enters the bog at the bottom. I think the valve you are describing has to be above the water level of the bog.

correct me if I am wrong.

 

[GBBUDD]

I think I may be unable to use an anti siphone valve because my plumbing enters the bog at the bottom. I think the valve you are describing has to be above the water level of the bog.

correct me if I am wrong.

You are correct .... It would not be the first time i saw two check valves in line

 

[CHY]

You are correct .... It would not be the first time i saw two check valves in line

Just to be clear, are you saying I can resolve the the problem by putting 2 check valves in the line?

 

[GBBUDD]

It's possible , without seeing the plumbing layout the elevation the pond . it is impossible to say it definitely will solve the problem. Does it make the noise when the pump is on?

 

[CHY]

It only makes the noise when the pump is turned off.

Everything works perfectly while the pump is running.

 

[CHY]

This is my feeble attempt at a drawing of what I am dealing with

 

[Landman]

I had a similar problem in fact I still have some issues. My pump is external and not self priming if the lid is closed everything works fine but when the lid is off the water backs out into the pond. The sound you are hearing is called hammerhead and I have this issue only when I open the lid to clean out the basket. I had this issue before even when the lid was closed and I found out I had not glued or in your case possibly not glued well 2 pipes together allowing air to come in and break the hold of water when the power goes off. I think in my case just not enough water behind the flap to hold it shut and I sits sideways so that doesn’t help it would be nice if it could have been up and down. Without more info on your setup this is my guess. Side not I have to fill my pump basket quickly and get the lid on I sill lose some water but once on to removes the air and runs fine.

 

[CHY]

@Landman

I believe what I am hearing is a steady thumping sound about every 2 seconds that lasts until the bog has emptied itself back into the pond. So your description of water hammering seems correct, however, that isn't supposed to continue in a steady pattern like I am experiencing. Water Hammer typically happens once when the valve is closed, and then ceases.

It is a shame that your flap sits sideways. I agree that would cause a problem. My check valve is vertical so that is not my problem.