New Pond in the Works

[KDubU]

Haven’t posted in several months as there has been a lot of life changes. Sold our house on the coast in ME, temporarily moved to Santa Fe and then bought a small place in FL. Now that we are here, I am planning to build another pond and have fish which one is not allowed in ME. I have some questions though on having a pond in FL.

1) The summer heat and preventing the water from getting too warm —- thinking a lot of tropical plants hanging over for shade plus floating plants to cover 50%+.

2) Related to above and predators, depth of pond I would like to be at least 4 feet but here in this part of FL and likely many other areas, dig 2ft down and one hits water. So what to do to keep the water out until the the liner is in? Do I have to go with a concrete pond?

3) Overflow. Here in FL downpours could easily overwhelm a small pond as water goes to the lowest point so I am planning some kind of overflow that the fish can’t get out of the pond with, any suggestions?

I am sure there are more but that is all I have right now.

Tks
Kyle

 

[BKHpondcritters]

To increase your depth, could you do partial raised? Two feet in ground & two feet above? That would also solve your overflow problem since it would be well above ground level. For the water that falls into the pond & needs somewhere to go, my skimmer has a built in overflow pipe that channels water away from the pond.

congrats & good luck on your new adventure!

 

[poconojoe]

There have been many discussions here on water accumulating under a liner.
Believe it or not, this can cause the bottom of the liner to push up. This is what we call a water hippo.

What you can do is add a vertical piece of PVC pipe between the liner and one of the walls of you pond. The water will percolate up through the pipe and out from under your liner. It will be the path of least resistance.

Hopefully others will chime in and give you more details on how to do this. I think my description might be a little general. Start a new post and title it "water hippo" and you should get more responses.

 

[Stephen Noble]

Yep, tropical plants work great for shade. I have used them for years in several different homes. Think of Disney's magnificent Typhoon Lagoon with its tropicals shading the lazy river. You can use potted plants or directly plant them depending on where in FL you are.

 

[poconojoe]

Yep, water hyacinths, water lettuce are great floating plants that can shade your pond. They are illegal in some states though, so check your laws.

They can grow like crazy. You'll be constantly scooping them out, but they do their job well. They shade and help filter the water.

Just about every year they cover my whole pond. I'm always thinning them out and where I live is not tropical. I hate to kill them, but it has to be done. They go in my mulch pile.

 

[GBBUDD]

@KDubU YOU TOO HUH......... i remember your build it came out very nice in deed first time builder or not.... I to am considering moving as i have had about enough of the north east.
Your water table question is one that can be a challenge. Like @poconojoe stated it's not real hard to keep your liner from hippoing but it is a little of a balancing act . The idea is to have a path of least resistance for the water to travel as pressure builds up from ground table water. If you have a larger pond build you may consider more then one pipe. Just as the water from underneath can lift your liner the water and rocks above can push and seal the liner to the ground blocking the path to the pipe. So Just like a French drain around the perimeter of a home that has water problems you can do the same under the pond. if you expect that much water then its better to be safe then sorry . Anyways a few channels of stone and maybe even a pipe in it with cut slits just like we do with a bog but we are not adding a pump we are just allowing water in and letting it be lifted up to the surface where the pressure is removed all together. They do have a flat or several pipes attached to one another as a option from the supply houses . But seeing the final product of your build i suspect you can make pvc pipe with some stone.
As far as building it the same pipes you use for the hippo you can use to have a pump pull the water out of the excavation untill you get your liner and boulders in place a bald epdm with no rock i don't see that as a workable option. though i could be wrong.

As to the birds Florida is La La LOADED with Blue herons white egrets pelicans osprey eagles you name it they are there in abundance. I took the idea of removing the flight path of such birds as osprey and blue herons. while the osprey can dive vertically the blue can not. but they can drop in some tight areas. But what those both need as well as eagles and many others is a long flight path out from the pond. They are crafty while the flight path was obstructed i had a large back yard they could land in and walk up to the pond. that too was taken away by hanging a golf net between the pond and that area so flying and walking is not an option for them.
Other possibilities is to have a 30" side down to the waters surface this way if a heron is standing on the edge of the pond they have a 3' drop one that's longer then there neck . " not my favorite option but for one side on the right area could work " Then there is the no where from the birds to stand along the pond almost impossible to do but if you did a raised a row of nails could do the trick. like Addy and others a net or fishing line stretched across the ponds surface. Like you said give the pond some good shade they may not find you so much. pond dies. and the scarecrow.

 

[JamieB]

Talk to other pond keepers in the area. If the water table is that high, the pipe under the liner will get steady use, and could get clogged. You might consider going up, for a partial raised pond, to give you an easier build than fighting against the water table.

 

[cas]

You could take the dirt that you will have from digging out the pond and place it a around the pond, spreading it out a couple of feet so the berm isn't as noticeable, to raise the level of dirt. Someone just posted a new pond build where they did this and it turned out quite nice. I will see if I can find it.

Regarding an overflow. It doesn't have to be elaborate. I have a place where I just lowered the liner a little bit and put rocks over it.

 

[Doctor mcboy]

@KDubU YOU TOO HUH......... i remember your build it came out very nice in deed first time builder or not.... I to am considering moving as i have had about enough of the north east.
Your water table question is one that can be a challenge. Like @poconojoe stated it's not real hard to keep your liner from hippoing but it is a little of a balancing act . The idea is to have a path of least resistance for the water to travel as pressure builds up from ground table water. If you have a larger pond build you may consider more then one pipe. Just as the water from underneath can lift your liner the water and rocks above can push and seal the liner to the ground blocking the path to the pipe. So Just like a French drain around the perimeter of a home that has water problems you can do the same under the pond. if you expect that much water then its better to be safe then sorry . Anyways a few channels of stone and maybe even a pipe in it with cut slits just like we do with a bog but we are not adding a pump we are just allowing water in and letting it be lifted up to the surface where the pressure is removed all together. They do have a flat or several pipes attached to one another as a option from the supply houses . But seeing the final product of your build i suspect you can make pvc pipe with some stone.
As far as building it the same pipes you use for the hippo you can use to have a pump pull the water out of the excavation untill you get your liner and boulders in place a bald epdm with no rock i don't see that as a workable option. though i could be wrong.

As to the birds Florida is La La LOADED with Blue herons white egrets pelicans osprey eagles you name it they are there in abundance. I took the idea of removing the flight path of such birds as osprey and blue herons. while the osprey can dive vertically the blue can not. but they can drop in some tight areas. But what those both need as well as eagles and many others is a long flight path out from the pond. They are crafty while the flight path was obstructed i had a large back yard they could land in and walk up to the pond. that too was taken away by hanging a golf net between the pond and that area so flying and walking is not an option for them.
Other possibilities is to have a 30" side down to the waters surface this way if a heron is standing on the edge of the pond they have a 3' drop one that's longer then there neck . " not my favorite option but for one side on the right area could work " Then there is the no where from the birds to stand along the pond almost impossible to do but if you did a raised a row of nails could do the trick. like Addy and others a net or fishing line stretched across the ponds surface. Like you said give the pond some good shade they may not find you so much. pond dies. and the scarecrow.

 

[Doctor mcboy]

QUOTE="GBBUDD, post: 452886, member: 10026"]
@KDubU YOU TOO HUH......... i remember your build it came out very nice in deed first time builder or not.... I to am considering moving as i have had about enough of the north east.
i heard that come on down!

 

[KDubU]

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I do think the idea from @BKHpondcritters about raising the pond makes sense as I have dug some fence post holes in the yard and yup, 2ft down water leaks in. So even if I go with pipe installed under the liner to prevent “hippoing”, digging the pond and liner myself will be a battle and a half keeping water out before I get down to 4’. Sure I can rent a commercial pump to keep it out but again a one man team will not make this a fun affair. Likely I will still have pipes for drainage under the liner regardless even if only dig 2’ deep in the event of heavy rains raising the water table.

@GBBUDD yes we took the plunge and decided to sell our property in ME. It was a hard decision as we had a lot invested there with house additions, garage additions, fully fenced dog area of 3/4 acre, backup generator, solar panels, landscaping, new pond, etc. In the end though we got an offer we could not refuse as it was much higher than we anticipated. FL is interesting and busy so that is a big change for us but we are coping and over time will acclimatize we think. Thanks for the thoughts on the predators and how to hinder their chances.

Missing my pond in a big way. Some previous pics.

 

[JamieB]

Oh the things I would do with semi tropical weather! I thought of another issue you may face, depending on which part of Florida you are in: gators! You may wish to fence the pond against them coming in and deciding it’s prime realestate. ( hope you understand what that meant, as my phone obviously doesn’t). A young gator is small, could fit through chain link, and they can climb a chain link fence if it’s sturdy enough to hold their weight.

 

[GBBUDD]

@KDubU why a place in New Mexico and Florida aren't those real close to the same temp wise ? What made you jump was it the taxes I know the area you were in its great in Freeport. As many places as I have been in the U.s there's still many more I have not.

 

[KDubU]

Oh the things I would do with semi tropical weather! I thought of another issue you may face, depending on which part of Florida you are in: gators! You may wish to fence the pond against them coming in and deciding it’s prime realestate. ( hope you understand what that meant, as my phone obviously doesn’t). A young gator is small, could fit through chain link, and they can climb a chain link fence if it’s sturdy enough to hold their weight.

Yes the tropical gardening is awesome and I have so many plans, some already implemented within the three months we have been here, e.g. 13 different palms planted, 8 different bamboo and a number of other large leafed tropical plants). As for gators, yup this is always a concern here in FL and I am installing a large fenced off backyard where the pond will be located so good there. Although I have seen a video of a gator climbing a metal fence...unbelievable. Thanks though for the reminder as they truly can be found in any water except the surf.

 

[KDubU]

@KDubU why a place in New Mexico and Florida aren't those real close to the same temp wise ? What made you jump was it the taxes I know the area you were in its great in Freeport. As many places as I have been in the U.s there's still many more I have not.

Well yes and no. We were in Santa Fe and winters can get cool to cold although the sun is warm and always shining it seems. Beautiful area of the country but water availability concerns us a lot plus home prices are crazy there with avg price at $500k now and a nice spot especially in the mountains around the city is likely $750k+. We still love Santa Fe and would go back. As for taxes, sure FL does not have State tax but that I believe is oversold big time. Reason is that FL is much more expensive than other States and these are some examples for us currently:

Real estate taxes - paid around $5400/yr in ME within walking distance of beach in Kennebunk, 3000sq ft house, four car garage all on 6.5 acres. Here in FL, small 1100sq ft house, on an island but not walking distance to beach, no garage on .75 acres, $5k. Also have to pay extra for garbage and recycle here, did not have to in Kennebunk.

Pet insurance - for one pup in ME it was $55/mth, here in FL it’s $104/mth.

Those are just some comparisons, I am sure there are others.