New pond, nervous about winter

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
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16x10x3 (assuming a box, which it is not) is 3600 gallons.

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lol I should have used the pond calculator................it was before coffee and I have a bad cold, kept thinking something was wrong
 

sissy

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I put a gallon water meter on my hose so I could I could get a somewhat accurate water volume .I did get snow so it came down to a some what guess by size and depth .Last time I had my pond different levels this time I made the bottom totally level ,hard to do but worth it when I net out the pond
 
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Welcome. Careful with the aerator in winter. The one and only year i used an aerator in winter we had a very harsh weather. I am not sure if it was the air stones to low in the water but I lost count of the fish that I lost. I went back to a small pump in a bucket on the plant shelf and bought pond breathers which have worked very well.
 
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Welcome. Careful with the aerator in winter. The one and only year i used an aerator in winter we had a very harsh weather. I am not sure if it was the air stones to low in the water but I lost count of the fish that I lost. I went back to a small pump in a bucket on the plant shelf and bought pond breathers which have worked very well.

Can you explain how a airstone emptied the pond? Or what happened?
 
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Can you explain how a airstone emptied the pond? Or what happened?
It didn't empty the pond but with temps below zero for a week and below freezing for well over a month i think it may have dropped the temp of the water at the bottom of the pond. I lost all of my koi and not sure how many comets that year. I could be wrong, it may not have anything to do with the aerator but i won't use it in the winter anymore. I think Addy had a neighbor who lost all of his fish when he used an aerator over winter.
 
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Thank you again for your help and insight, everyone. I will upload pictures after I take some this weekend (maybe tomorrow, hopefully), basically after I remove the pond netting and am home long enough to do so. I don't have any pre-existing pictures to upload in the meantime, though I really wish I had taken some before/after and in-progress photos. The transformation of my backyard has been pretty awesome, and I unfortunately have no record of that. It feels like I've moved into a new house whenever I go out back (which is like 25 times a day/night).

I reviewed my thought process in creating the pond in my first post as a way of indicating not only my lack of understanding of what I was getting myself into, but also to highlight the true range of my inexperience. Even though as late as June I had no idea that I would be building a pond and especially no sense that I would have fish, I have jumped into this hobby with both feet. I have since read around five books and I don't know how many articles, blog posts, videos, etc., but I am still more clueless than I am comfortable with being for heading into a season that could kill the fish. For example, I thought that an aerator was a pond breather--they both would seem to involve air, so I'm confused by the difference.

One problem that I've been facing is that my fish are shy and I don't really understand them. Everything I've read about fish basically says that they will become friendly and come to feed, etc. But I faced a combination of three variables that really short-circuited that bonding process, and it contributes to my concerns heading into winter. The first is that the instinct of my fish when I approach is to hide in their little rock pile by the skimmer. They are very adept at getting there quickly, let me tell you. The second is that the pond has a pretty strong flow and it carries food into the skimmer quite quickly. The third is that I didn't get everything up and running until very late in the season, such that I began the wheat germ diet maybe a week or two after getting my first fish and tapered off the feeding not too long after the last fish had been added. Putting all three together, I started by putting too much food into the pond (and then taking it out of the skimmer--huge waste) but without feeding the fish so much, because by the time the fish came out to get some food, most of it had been sucked away. If I added more in an effort to feed them rather than the skimmer filter, they promptly hid again, so I stopped doing that. Not so long thereafter, I wasn't even having that much interaction with them, because it was too cold to keep feeding them. So that whole bonding-through-feeding process never happened at all.

Consequently, I don't know what normal behavior looks like, and I haven't been able to get a sustained enough look at any of the fish to learn what "healthy" looks like, either. I have no baseline for evaluating potential problems. I had one fish who I never, ever saw, until it came out for a couple of days and died back in October. Its behavior was clearly problematic while it was out, so as long as my fish don't act like that, I suppose I know they aren't suffering from whatever killed that one. I had nothing at the time to help that fish, nor any real clue about what to do. I therefore got melafix, pimafix and pond salt to have on hand so that I would not feel so helpless should future problems arise. I still need to get some kind of holding tank for maybe giving sick fish a salt bath. (I don't want to add salt to the pond, because I want the pond to be for the plants as much as the fish.) It disturbs me that I can't be knowledgeably proactive for my fish, because of my lack of bonding with or understanding of them. The best I've been able to do is add stress coat when adding water to the pond. I feel like I just have to cross my fingers until the Spring and hope the fish come out alive and then, maybe six months after I've added fish to the pond, I can start pretending I have some pets back there. But I wonder if they already have it ingrained in them that I am to be feared, because that's the only kind of behavior I've ever seen from them so far.

In my next post, I'd like to list a few questions that have no particular relation to each other but that I haven't found discussed anywhere, if I could. The info on the skimmer was very helpful, but I have to confess I am extremely wary of tampering with anything liner-related. The long stretch I had when I was trying to solve water loss was extraordinarily frustrating, such that I almost gave up on everything. Having finally gotten that issue fully resolved, I am loathe to potentially re-create those conditions. But I will do what I must, and I appreciate being given the guidance to identify the necessary course of action.
 
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The pond breather pulls water from the bottom of the pond and pumps through a tube above the surface of the ice It vents the gases from the pond and is much more energy efficient that a de-icer. I bought mine at Blains Farm and Fleet. Best price i have seen and they ship. I think we all worry about our ponds in the winter. Goldfish and koi are pretty hardy and should be fine for you. Enjoy the pond
 
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Welcome! You are clearly handling the pond learning curve very adeptly! Keep reading and asking questions - you have a long winter to spend learning about your pond!

There are better folks here to help you tweak your pond design, so I won't touch that topic. I just wanted to reassure you that your fish will become socialized as time goes by. As you spend more time around the pond they will grow accustomed to your presence and learn you are the bringer of their favorite thing - food!

A few suggestions regarding your food getting to the skimmer too fast - some folks have to shut their pump off when they feed to address that issue. You may only need to do that until your fish lose their wariness and start eating faster. You could also try adding just a few pellets at a time so they can eat it before it hits the skimmer. Or you can try adding a feeding ring - a small hoop that floats on the surface and that corrals the food so it won't float off.

I look forward to seeing pictures of your pond - suggestions will get more specific and helpful when we can see what you're dealing with.
 

cas

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Hi @Spartamets . Welcome to the forum.

My sister also had the problem with the current taking the food before the fish could eat it. She turns off the pump while feeding. Now whenever the pump is stopped, the fish come running to the top to be fed. Give the fish time. They will learn.

Regarding an air stone to keep a hole in the ice. I have used an aerator for over 10 winters with no problem. My pond is about 2 1/2 feet deep and I place the air stone about 12" down. I also do not use a real powerful aerator.. In the winter I use a Laguna Aerator PT-1630. It is not as powerful as the one I use in the summer.

I started using a pond breather last winter (in addition to an air stone). What I like about the pond breather is it's small pump is about 30" deep and circulates the water at the bottom of the pond. I noticed that my pond water was clearer in the spring when I started using the pond breather and I think it is because of this water circulation.

You aren't the only one. I would also change some things about the way I designed my pond. Live and learn! ;)
 

sissy

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Remember last winter was a fairly mild winter so keep all options open ,because the you never know can happen .The worst can be when your electric goes out .I found a good way around that and used foam from a TV my son got to help keep it open and my gas grill side burner to heat water .I prepare for the worst and hope for the best ;)
 
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I reviewed my thought process in creating the pond in my first post as a way of indicating not only my lack of understanding of what I was getting myself into, but also to highlight the true range of my inexperience. Even though as late as June I had no idea that I would be building a pond and especially no sense that I would have fish, I have jumped into this hobby with both feet.
Hi Spartamets, welcome to the site. Dont feel bad about jumping in, I did the same last year but now I have a lovely pond full of rescued fish, and by the way, all my problems were solved by the amazing people on this site.
You have come to the rite place for information on your new found hobby. Ponds with fish are an awful lot of work, (more than I first thought, and more than my wife thought, she never sees me now, ) however you will love it, just to sit on a nice summer evening with a nice glass of red wine and watch your fish swim and play is so satisfying.
Dont be scared to ask loads of questions on here these guys are enthusiastic hobbyists as well and love to help out.
Good luck with your hobby and i look forward to seeing the pictures.
 
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Thank you again for your help and insight, everyone. I will upload pictures after I take some this weekend (maybe tomorrow, hopefully), basically after I remove the pond netting and am home long enough to do so. I don't have any pre-existing pictures to upload in the meantime, though I really wish I had taken some before/after and in-progress photos. The transformation of my backyard has been pretty awesome, and I unfortunately have no record of that. It feels like I've moved into a new house whenever I go out back (which is like 25 times a day/night).

I hear what you are saying. I've made a conscious decision recently when I do work on the house to take before photos of that area, "while" photos, and after photos. It makes a really nice record.

What pump are you using in your pond? With your feeding description and the fish hiding out in a low current area, I'm wondering if you have too much flow for the size of the pond.
 
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Wow, every time I come back to this site, there are more good insights and ideas waiting. You all are terrific! I have a spitter with a small (350gph) dedicated pump on the bottom. Would that suffice as a pond breather? I will also prepare some kind of non-electric backup in case the power goes out while there is also freezing activity. Basically, I'll keep doing a lot of trial and error for winter aeration and see what works, but have options on hand for when the "error" outcome arises, as it usually has done for me with this pond.

I will consider shutting my pond off at feeding time, too. My hope is that by the time the fish emerge from winter and are ready to eat again, they will have forgotten that they are afraid of me. My expectations, however, are otherwise. EricV, my pump is definitely strong, but I have about a 15 foot stream leading to the pond, and given the slope of my yard, probably a 5 foot drop from waterfall to pond surface. I'm also a fan of flow in the waterfall/stream part. My 4800 GPH pump feels right, except for feeding time. I hope to post pictures later today, and definitely by tomorrow. In the meantime, I have some new questions.

1) The fish hide out in the rock pile for most of the day, near as I can tell (except the orfes). I have worried about their waste being trapped down there. Is this fear warrated, and is there anything I can or should do if so?
2) What is the latest that a new fish can be added to a pond? I felt like I was cutting it close to some sort of seasonal deadline when I added fish in late October. Since fish are dormant, woudld it be basically a death sentence to add one during the winter? (I don't have plans, just wondering. But if it's fine, then I might actually get plans...)
3) The stream leading into the pond has a nice bed of pond stones. I have treated the stream as a filter of sorts. Whenever I go into the stream for whatever reason (usually to fix the waterfalls, which are still not really close to being right), all sorts of sediment and general grossness swirls up from under the rocks. This worries me, since it then washes down to the pond. I have thought that maybe I should clean out the stream--and bear in mind it has only been running since early September (it was never "broken"), so it clearly collects gunk quickly--but I'm not sure if this is either advisable or necessary. How should I handle the stream?
4) For some plant baskets, I used dirt with gravel. Somehow, they tipped over; that somehow was usually me. The consequences were not what I would have liked. For other baskets, I used that expensive plant media stuff. I also use that for planting things in the stream and waterfall. It seems to be immune to my efforts at self-sabotage, so I think I will stick with it everywhere, despite the cost. Do I have to change it out each year? Should I treat it like rocks or potting soil, in other words: rocks just are, but potting soil needs to be changed out periodically. Would adding fertilizer tablets allow me to keep the same planting media if it were otherwise to require changing?
5) Regardng water changes, does evaporation and waterfall loss work for "changing out" water? I have spent so much time dealing with replacing water that the idea of taking water out never would have occurred to me. But I have read in many contexts (here, for example) of the benefits of water changes. Can I just wait for the inevitable water drop and then replace that water, or do I also need to directly intervene? I have a set-up that will lead to consistent water drops, especially in warm weather, apart from leaks and things gone wrong, so I know that I will need to add water regularly anyway.

I'll stop there. Thank you all again.for your guidance and encouragement. And Gavin, in the rare moment when I am by my pond but neither working on nor worrying about it, I have experienced what you describe. One of the tremendous and unexpected benefits of the water feature is that working on it is itself very enjoyable. If it ever were to feel like a chore, I will be in trouble because there is so much to do. But whenever I'm out there fixing something or building or tinkering, I'm doing it either in or around a waterfall, which sounds and feels right under any and all circumstances in my view. It's like being paid for having a career that you would otherwise have pursued as a leisure activity. I am definitely looking forward to having everything up to speed. I've never seen some of my plants in bloom--the landscaping plants were in quasi-dormancy by the time I was ready to think about the area around the pond (but they were available at greatly reduced process, which helped)--I've never even had most of the pond plants I want or need, and my fish hide from me. Still, I love being by my pond, even in the dark. It's been a very wonderful and powerful addition to my life. I really can't wait until the Spring to see all of the above actually alive (hopefully) and in bloom.
 
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