Ongoing saga of death

[David604]

Parasites are often the problem as Dave54 indicated but since you have already performed two (2) treatments of Potassium Permanganate I think that it is highly unlikely that you have a parasite problem. Plain stress can not be ruled out.
Have the turtles exhibited any symptoms of distress?
Am I safe in assuming that you have not added any more fish?
Post the additional test results as soon as they are available.

I should also mention that when I was(still am of course) just learning I bought some salt in put that in the pond and way too much. I did this before we drained and updated it all. It was too much salt for the plants and I was informed too much for the fish and should only be used to treat certain parasites. Sorry I didn't mention that earlier, but the discussion on parasites made me remember.

The turtles have not exhibited any forms of distress although they are very shy. I have one in each pond and when we drained both I put both in the lower pond and later realized the older one went back to the upper pond.
I have not added any more fish now, both ponds are empty except for the 2 turtles. As soon as I receive the other kits, I'l post the results. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[morewater]

How much salt (what type?) would have been "too much"?

 

[David604]

How much salt (what type?) would have been "too much"?

Morton water softening pellets. I don't remember the reading, but it was off the charts for therapeutic dosing per the kit I had. I have since learned salt is unnecessary except for treating certain parasites.

 

[David604]

Parasites are often the problem as Dave54 indicated but since you have already performed two (2) treatments of Potassium Permanganate I think that it is highly unlikely that you have a parasite problem. Plain stress can not be ruled out.
Have the turtles exhibited any symptoms of distress?
Am I safe in assuming that you have not added any more fish?
Post the additional test results as soon as they are available.

I just received the API GH & KH test kit and here are the results:
KH - 8 drops 8 dKH 143.2 ppm KH
GH - I tried twice but could not get the water to turn green from orange even going up to 60+ drops

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I just received the API GH & KH test kit and here are the results:
KH - 8 drops 8 dKH 143.2 ppm KH
GH - I tried twice but could not get the water to turn green from orange even going up to 60+ drops

Interesting.
This indicates that any water hardness that you may have is sodium and/of potassium carbonate instead of calcium and/or magnesium carbonate which the GH test is designed to detect.
The KH is fine at the moment but I suspect that once fish are reintroduced this KH level will rapidly drop resulting in fluctuating pH levels which, in turn, can be very stressful to fish, especially if the swings in pH level is wide.
This may, or may not, be the source of your problem.Without fish, the demand placed on Alkalinity (KH) is much lower than when fish are present, so the KH (and pH) may remain relatively stable. When fish are re-introduced this may rapidly change.
The only sure way to determine if this is indeed the problem is to introduce a few fish to your pond and regularly monitor the pH (twice a day [am and pm] for a week). If this is the problem you should start to see wider swings in the diel pH level fluctuation as time passes.
I suspect that you will likely need to begin adding Calcium Chloride and Epson Salts to your pond to correct this deficiency and raise the GH, but lets not get ahead of ourselves as this is only one possible cause of the past fish mortalities.

 

[David604]

Interesting.
This indicates that any water hardness that you may have is sodium and/of potassium carbonate instead of calcium and/or magnesium carbonate which the GH test is designed to detect.
The KH is fine at the moment but I suspect that once fish are reintroduced this KH level will rapidly drop resulting in fluctuating pH levels which, in turn, can be very stressful to fish, especially if the swings in pH level is wide.
This may, or may not, be the source of your problem.Without fish, the demand placed on Alkalinity (KH) is much lower than when fish are present, so the KH (and pH) may remain relatively stable. When fish are re-introduced this may rapidly change.
The only sure way to determine if this is indeed the problem is to introduce a few fish to your pond and regularly monitor the pH (twice a day [am and pm] for a week). If this is the problem you should start to see wider swings in the diel pH level fluctuation as time passes.
I suspect that you will likely need to begin adding Calcium Chloride and Epson Salts to your pond to correct this deficiency and raise the GH, but lets not get ahead of ourselves as this is only one possible cause of the past fish mortalities.

Thanks, I really appreciate the help and advice. I'll let you know when were about to introduce fish. Happy Thanksgiving

 

[Dave 54]

May I suggest @David604 that to permanently bulster Ph Gh Kh that you visit the Kusuri website and invest in a bucket of Lythaqua which is calcified seasweed this should take care of things for a good many years .
Weve been using it since se came outdoors with no problems whatsoever best of luck my friend

Dave

 

[David604]

Hi All,
I'm hoping to put some more tester fish in the pond today. We will probably put in 2 medium sized fish.

Here are the current readings:
GH - 20 drops and still could not get the test to register. The test does not turn green. <- This seems to be the only abnormal test result.
KH - 125.3 dKH 7
DO - 8 or a little higher
PH 7.6
High PH 8-
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

I have not diverted the "waste water" from the under kitchen counter RO system as of yet. I will do it if you feel is it very important, but thus far haven't come across strong opinion on it. I have read many people doing it with no issue. PS - very little waste water from the RO is generated.
Thanks, David

 

[MitchM]

I have a few questions about your RO setup -
What part of the country are you in?
Are you on well water or municipal water?
Do you have a water softener plumbed in before your RO unit? If you do have a water softener, are you using calcium chloride or potassium chloride pellets?
Do you have a TDS meter on your RO unit? If so, what is the incoming TDS reading?
Can you estimate how much RO waste water you create? The rejection rate for RO units is typically 4:1, depending on water pressure and temperature, so if you use 10 gallons of RO water, you will produce 40 gallons of wastewater.

I also have a couple of RO water filters and the wastewater will contain all the minerals that cannot pass through the RO membrane.

.

 

[David604]

I have a few questions about your RO setup -
What part of the country are you in?
Are you on well water or municipal water?
Do you have a water softener plumbed in before your RO unit? If you do have a water softener, are you using calcium chloride or potassium chloride pellets?
Do you have a TDS meter on your RO unit? If so, what is the incoming TDS reading?
Can you estimate how much RO waste water you create? The rejection rate for RO units is typically 4:1, depending on water pressure and temperature, so if you use 10 gallons of RO water, you will produce 40 gallons of wastewater.

I also have a couple of RO water filters and the wastewater will contain all the minerals that cannot pass through the RO membrane.

.

Hi Mitch,

I'm in Vista, CA in San Diego county
Were on municipal water
We do have a whole house water conditioner. I am not 100% certain, but I think the softener is plumbed in before the RO unit. I am using Potassium chloride.
I do not have a TDS meter.
I can't say I can really estimate how much waste is created. We have been using the RO a lot less for the last couple of months as I think at least one cart needs replacing and so I have ordered the 3 cartridges to replace the existing ones and now I just need to get the o ring lube.

The previous home owner ran the RO this way for years with no issue.

Are the minerals a bad thing?

 

[MitchM]

The minerals are not necessarily a bad thing - it depends on what volume of wastewater is involved.
It's just something to be considered when trying to track down a problem.

I suspect that your second round of losing the fish was due to the pond not completing it's cycle but by the time you actually took water quality tests the cycle had completed.
I'll have to go through your process again, or maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.
Otherwise it sounds fine to me to reintroduce fish again.

 

[MitchM]

Just be careful of issues like the pesticide problem and too much untreated (chlorinated) municipal water entering the pond at once.
I would discontinue using the wastewater for the pond as well. You never know when the municipality may decide to treat the incoming water into your house with a heavy dose of disinfectant, in which case the RO filter will divert whatever chemicals directly into your pond.
The previous owner may not have had any problems, but it's not a chance I would be willing to take.
Just my opinion, anyways.

.

 

[addy1]

I wouldn't send it that way either, our water was very hard in Phoenix. The minerals diverted with the RO system will build up in the pond, increasing its mineral load.

Our water in MD is very soft I have to buffer it up. We don't have a RO system here.

 

[David604]

Adding two fish on the smaller side now. We have not used the RO water in a couple of months at this point as I need to change the cartridges, but will keep that in mind for sure.

 

[David604]

I should also mention there is a whole house filtration system along with the water softener. I think the RO water is plumbed in after(not 100% certain)