Peat moss in Bog Filter

[drjay9051]

Everybody seems to use pea gravel in their bog filters.
What about couple inches of gravel and remainder peat and coarse sand mix ?
Peat would provide acidic envifonment for plants such as pitcher,sundew,venus fly traps etc.
Do not know if other common bog plants will thrive in acidic media

Need I worry that the pond will become too acidic?
Detrimental to tadpoles and goldfish?

Just thinking outside the box.
I do not want to mess up a new
15x4 bog filter but it works for mother nature...

Dwell will be about 12 min with option to decrease via ball valve
Am I looking for trouble with peat moss?

I have never seen a gravel bog in nature so...

 

[Lisak1]

I think you need to also factor in that in nature the water moves over the surface of the bog. In a manmade wetland filter (which is probably the more accurate - although longer to type - term) the water is being pushed up through the gravel from the bottom of the enclosure.

My concern would be the water would carry the peat out of the bog into the pond. And I think you’d get considerable tannin staining from the peat.

@GBBUDD has a pitcher plant bog - maybe he can help with this one.

 

[drjay9051]

I think you need to also factor in that in nature the water moves over the surface of the bog. In a manmade wetland filter (which is probably the more accurate - although longer to type - term) the water is being pushed up through the gravel from the bottom of the enclosure.

My concern would be the water would carry the peat out of the bog into the pond. And I think you’d get considerable tannin staining from the peat.

@GBBUDD has a pitcher plant bog - maybe he can help with this one.

Good points.
I'd think once the peat is "waterlogged" it will stay put
My flow will be slooow so no flushing peat with strong current

As far as staining is it any different than what occurs with unwashed gravel when first starting bog?
I'd think stain would be temporary.
Just looking to try something different but need more info.
Most say gravel no deeper than 12 inches yet Addy has a deeper Bed and from what I have read, no issues.so clearly bog is not one size fits all
I do appreciate points you brought up

 

[Pablo]

Using peat moss has been brought up before and you are correct it is a filter in nature. People have mentioned the issue of tannins and acidity. I also wonder about it possibly clogging the pipes in the bog. Maybe a compromise would be to have a section of the bog with the peat moss and you could put some interesting plants in that area and see how it goes.

 

[drjay9051]

Using peat moss has been brought up before and you are correct it is a filter in nature. People have mentioned the issue of tannins and acidity. I also wonder about it possibly clogging the pipes in the bog. Maybe a compromise would be to have a section of the bog with the peat moss and you could put some interesting plants in that area and see how it goes.

Good thought.
A small area for acid lovers like carnivorous plants.
Wonder if I could grow an azalea in the peat section?

I dont think clogging will be an issue.
I have vertical clean out pipes.
Just wondering of I should put gravel above and below peat to sandwich it in place

 

[Pablo]

I'm sure @GBBUDD will pipe in because I think he did something similar for his pitcher plants. I dont think Azaleas like wet feet, so I dont think that would work, they like moisture but not constant water.

 

[Lisak1]

As far as staining is it any different than what occurs with unwashed gravel when first starting bog?
I'd think stain would be temporary.
Just looking to try something different but need more info.
Most say gravel no deeper than 12 inches yet Addy has a deeper Bed and from what I have read, no issues.so clearly bog is not one size fits all

Tannins and dirt from gravel are indeed totally different. Tannins give you the characteristic tea colored water - which honestly I don't mind in my pond - while dirt from gravel will just cause clouding that eventually settles.

It's an interesting thought, but all I can imagine is clogging, which can be an issue in a downflow or upflow bog situation. Water will seek the path of least resistance- if your peat impedes water flow at any spot, the water will just go around it. I know you think you'll cover the whole bog, but over time you will want to move things around, pull plants out to thin them, replant things, shift gravel, etc etc etc. You are going to end up stirring up that peat more than you imagine you might.

Anything that you read that says 12 inches of gravel is old info - my bog is 4 feet deep with a centipede and snorkel at the base, a layer of softball sized boulders followed by about 2 - 2.5 feet of gravel. Works great.

 

[drjay9051]

Tannins and dirt from gravel are indeed totally different. Tannins give you the characteristic tea colored water - which honestly I don't mind in my pond - while dirt from gravel will just cause clouding that eventually settles.

It's an interesting thought, but all I can imagine is clogging, which can be an issue in a downflow or upflow bog situation. Water will seek the path of least resistance- if your peat impedes water flow at any spot, the water will just go around it. I know you think you'll cover the whole bog, but over time you will want to move things around, pull plants out to thin them, replant things, shift gravel, etc etc etc. You are going to end up stirring up that peat more than you imagine you might.

Anything that you read that says 12 inches of gravel is old info - my bog is 4 feet deep with a centipede and snorkel at the base, a layer of softball sized boulders followed by about 2 - 2.5 feet of gravel. Works great.

I believe you just talked me out of peat.
As far as rock size I never thought it matteted.
I will say greater surface area=more beneficial bacteria.
Call me crazy but a bog with substrate like bioballs or scrubbing pads ? Although pads would be a nightmare with roots !

 

[GBBUDD]

Yes my pitcher plant bog is 50% peat and coarse sand. Sitting ontop of 2 inches of 3/4 gravel river rock. The reason for this is so the water can reach the center of the bog. Does it flow probably not just spaces to keep it from being g completely stagnant.
Pitchers prefer acidic water koi prefer soft so it's a fight. My ph is high a solid 8 thus the peat the sand as far as I can see is to make the mix where it will not float away. It is tricky to mix and takes some time to get peat waterlogged. I used a masons tray and a cut sheet of plywood . Mixed up the brew and weighted it down with the ply and rocks.
I love this area the moss cranks I have live spagnum and lungwart as well as many other water demanding items like sun dews though they are tough they don't like to be disturbed and I think weeding does them in.

 

[Lisak1]

I believe you just talked me out of peat.
As far as rock size I never thought it matteted.
I will say greater surface area=more beneficial bacteria.
Call me crazy but a bog with substrate like bioballs or scrubbing pads ? Although pads would be a nightmare with roots !

Aquascape has just started filling bogs with bioballs instead of stone or gravel. It will be interesting to see how that develops. On the plus side - very lightweight if you ever need to empty it out. On the other hand - way more expensive than gravel.

 

[GBBUDD]

I believe you just talked me out of peat.
As far as rock size I never thought it matteted.
I will say greater surface area=more beneficial bacteria.
Call me crazy but a bog with substrate like bioballs or scrubbing pads ? Although pads would be a nightmare with roots !

Aquascapes has started adding bio balls into the matrix blocks . But just wait till you price out how much 1500 bio balls cost in EACH HALF BLOCK. CHA CHING $

 

[GBBUDD]

Aquascape has just started filling bogs with bioballs instead of stone or gravel. It will be interesting to see how that develops. On the plus side - very lightweight if you ever need to empty it out. On the other hand - way more expensive than gravel.

They still use some gravel but much less the only advantage in my eyes would be for tight spaces and wanting more pond over a large bog.
Last video I saw they used a layer of 6 to 8 river on the aquablocks followed by 2to 4 in and a skim coat of 3/4

 

[Mmathis]

@drjay9051 When you say, “in nature,” you have to understand that our homemade habitats are only meant to mimic nature up to a certain point. Peat bogs are static. Our bogs (with gravel) are built as a flow-through system — which is why gravel works well by staying in place and only letting water and nutrients flow through.

Of course, there’s no reason you can’t try it and see what your results will be. Experimenation is often how we learn new things.

 

[GBBUDD]

I can save you a lot of grief Peat floats and does not absorb water quickly it can take 48 hours of soaking to get it to a neutral buoyancy and even then add some water current to it and it will be all over the pond before you can blink.
I used moss as a berm around the outside of the pitcher plants STATIC BOG not ment for filtration it's just a habitat for the pitchers. It's far from ideal but I'm willing to put in the effort to get the look I like from it

 

[drjay9051]

Since the basic idea is surface area for beneficial bacteria I have come to a decision. I can get 4x3 poly scrubbing pads pretty cheap. $20 for 120 on Amazon. So for $200 I will have 1200 pads. Yes I know pea gravel is only about $75 for a cubic yard but delivery to my area would run me over $400 for just one yard. so I need to drive 40 miles with a utility trailer and make multiple trips. Yes I could rent a large trailer or borrow a truck but at 71 with a back issue I do not wish to shovel 2.2 yards of gravel and i am too proud to hire help.

Anyway, pads on the bottom along with other types of media. I considered open cell foam but it likely will clog over time Actually i will likely get multiple items depending on cost. Build up the bottom layers to about 6 inches and then finish with a bed of pea gravel. I know there are so many different ways to do this. I have no problem experimenting.

As long as the media is clean and NON TOXIC I see no problem. Yes I know the gravel will fall between the pads etc but I plan on laying them out by hand and at first carefully spreading the gravel on top of pads.

Let's see what happens.