Pond liners, which to choose or avoid?

[kelpie]

Last item on my shopping list agenda is the choice of pond liner material I should be thinking of. Any thoughts from the combined wisdom here about the current thinking on material and thickness?

It has been suggested that I use old carpet and I have plenty of that, as an underlay. just that I have no idea whatsoever about what to keep the pond water in. Any thoughts are as ever most gratefully received.

 

[Jhn]

45 mil epdm or Hdrpe

 

[mrsclem]

Totally agree! Make sure there are no tacks or staples in your carpet underlay

 

[poconojoe]

Totally agree.
Just as a note: if you use HDRPE, make sure it has the "R" for reinforced, not the plain HDPE.

Also, I have to say it...stay far away from a PVC liner. It will fail within months. I know this from experience as a newbie. I admit I was attracted to the lower price.

 

[kelpie]

Thanks Joe, I'm a big fan of the axiom, "do it right or do it again"

I remember reading a post on here, (might have been yours?) About the significance of the R in HDRPE..

 

[brokensword]

I used the hdrpe for the first 9 years, and again when I expanded, getting one larger liner. The old one was in great condition and I used it for re-lining my bog v1 and mini stream.. For most applications, you don't need the underlay. If you have sharp edges anywhere or roots you're worried about, then use the underlay but if you go to the hdrpe site, they'll state exactly as I have above. Most peeps go for the EPDM as it's more an industry standard but I like the much better cost and since it's lighter, better shipping rate + easier to move by myself. A negative re hdrpe is that you'll have more issue with folds and how to hide them than with EPDM. But with EPDM, you DO need the underlay. If you research, you'll see HDRPE is harder to puncture/tear, so it's a worthy alternate to EPDM.

 

[Mmathis]

45 mil HPDM = good
PVC or plastic = bad

 

[poconojoe]

I used the hdrpe for the first 9 years, and again when I expanded, getting one larger liner. The old one was in great condition and I used it for re-lining my bog v1 and mini stream.. For most applications, you don't need the underlay. If you have sharp edges anywhere or roots you're worried about, then use the underlay but if you go to the hdrpe site, they'll state exactly as I have above. Most peeps go for the EPDM as it's more an industry standard but I like the much better cost and since it's lighter, better shipping rate + easier to move by myself. A negative re hdrpe is that you'll have more issue with folds and how to hide them than with EPDM. But with EPDM, you DO need the underlay. If you research, you'll see HDRPE is harder to puncture/tear, so it's a worthy alternate to EPDM.

Spot on!
Folding the corners is really not that bad with HDRPE. It's just like gift wrapping!

 

[kelpie]

45 mil HPDM = good
PVC or plastic = bad

Whats the >45 mil< part of that spec please??

 

[addy1]

I used HDRPE for my pond the folds just disappear after time, the algae, dirt, blends them in. I got mine from bend tarp and liner, at the time called ppl36. Deer have done their best to tear the liner, still have not. Twice now I have had deer digging with those sharp little hooves to get out and no damage to the liner.

The wrinkles, folds look like rock ridges after time. This is a few years back.

 

[Mmathis]

Whats the >45 mil< part of that spec please??

Thickness.

 

[kelpie]

I seem to be having difficulty in finding HDRPE 45 mil in the UK, most searches divert to HDPE.. with or without the R. I found a 40 year guarantee liner, but that looks to be a vinyl / EDPM / vinyl laminate.

anyone know of a UK based seller of HDRPE?

 

[Bluerooster]

I don't think the EPDM would be a problem, just need an underlayment of some sort. Old carpet works a treat.

 

[combatwombat]

@kelpie: It may be tough to find hdrpe in the UK at any weight, but I believe it is typically sold in 30 mil thickness.

Whatever you do, I would heed the advice of members here, verify the material you are purchasing (EPDM or HDRPE) and its thickness, and disregard warranties as they are mostly marketing (at least in The US) and few, if any, material warranties will cover the labor to uninstall/reinstall which is most of the time/cost of the work.

When I was much younger, I bought some deck stain that came with a 10 year warranty. Sanded my deck for days to prep it and applied exactly as instructed. Stain failed 1 year later. When I called about the warranty, they apologized and were happy to send me a few new cans of stain. The rep kind of laughed at me when I asked, "What about the 2 weekends worth of sanding I have to do again?"

That was a hard lesson to learn. Can you imagine rocking your whole pond in and then needing to replace the liner after a few years?

 

[kelpie]

@kelpie: It may be tough to find hdrpe in the UK at any weight, but I believe it is typically sold in 30 mil thickness.

Whatever you do, I would heed the advice of members here, verify the material you are purchasing (EPDM or HDRPE) and its thickness, and disregard warranties as they are mostly marketing (at least in The US) and few, if any, material warranties will cover the labor to uninstall/reinstall which is most of the time/cost of the work.

When I was much younger, I bought some deck stain that came with a 10 year warranty. Sanded my deck for days to prep it and applied exactly as instructed. Stain failed 1 year later. When I called about the warranty, they apologized and were happy to send me a few new cans of stain. The rep kind of laughed at me when I asked, "What about the 2 weekends worth of sanding I have to do again?"

That was a hard lesson to learn. Can you imagine rocking your whole pond in and then needing to replace the liner after a few years?

Thats a pretty basic caveat emptor to check the bona fides of the product, service or whatever it is you are purchasing both technically and anecdotally. If it sounds too good to be true then it probably isn't true and without any documentary, verifiable factual evidence to support the asseveration, its just an unsolicited and unverified claim.

The lack of the "R" has channelled me towards EDPM from a reputable and widely known manufacturer with a lot of acclaim from a large audience.

It's one of the benefits of forums in general, where there is a wide body of experience available to peruse, assuming you can separate the facts from opinions and regurgitated urban myth from recollection.