Pond Rebuild help

[Billie]

Getting ready to rebuild my pond and have a few questions. Liners - What is the best type of liner? My first pond liner was pvc & had a 15 year warranty, it lasted 6 years! I have seen pebbled & blue liners, they sure look nice but is the black liner better?
Location- Shade or sun? What is the best shape to help keep all the water moving? I was thinking of making an oval pond with a 2' wide ledge at 14" to 16" deep, after the ledge a 3' drop for the center of the pond. I l have learned NO GRAVEL! I am thinking about putting some of my flagstone around the ledge but not in the bottom. Bottom drain- I do believe it is best to have one but do I have to cut the liner to install one? Is it possible to make an internal bottom drain? Thanks in advance for all the help!!!!

 

[Billie]

I would also like to do a portion of the pond above ground. I was thinking of a place to sit close to the pond and be able to put my hands in the water. What are my options for having it about 1ft above ground, blocks? The more I try to research it, the more unsure I am about my design.

 

[Billie]

Another question!!! If my pond needs to be 4ft here for winter, does that mean all 4ft below ground level? Could I do 1 ft above and 3 ft below ground level and still keep my fish from freezing? I was thinking about going a foot above ground with the top of the pond. (Im guessing I would use concrete blocks) I would then go out from the edge of the pond a foot or two and make a retaining wall with stone/ blocks. I could then fill in between the pond & the wall with dirt for a flower bed & maybe even fill part with river rock for sitting. Geesh!!! The more questions I ask, the questions I think of! I greatly appreciate any help! Thank you.

 

[GBBUDD]

45 mil epdm rubber

 

[GBBUDD]

epdm rubber if covered from uv rays it can last 20 plus years

In shade I would think it would be a lot easier for algae but more maintenance 6 hours sun is needed for sum loving plants.

circular is easiest to maintain

 

[addy1]

I have mine 5.5 feet deep, sloping out, so I can walk in. We are 6b. Make the pond as big as you can, you will never regret that. Bottom drain, don't have one, never wanted one.
Any stuff that falls in I net out now and then. I had a retro fit bottom drain in my pond in Arizona, removed it after it sucked in too many critters.

Shelves are nice, but herons love to land on them and fish.

I used some liner from bend tarp and liner, ppl36 tough stuff. Does not get as slick as 45 epdm. Either will work great.

Make your above ground wall, but make a good amount below ground. Mine is all in ground.

Filtering, if you can, build in a bog, up flow pea gravel plant filled filter. That is all I filter with keeps my pond water perfect.

Sun: Mine is full sun, no shade period. It does great, the plants love it. No green water, no excessive algae in the big ponds.

It will be fun to watch your build.

Keep asking ?? best way to learn

And we all have built our ponds a bit differently, the only thing the same is they have water in them.

 

[sissy]

rubber epdm as the liner will get covered in good muck .My pond is half above and half below ground .Sun or shade does not really matter as you can provide shade .I preferred a rectangle because liner only needs folds in 4 corners ..I used block and just filled the block with my clay soil and rebar . 4 rows high as of last rebuild and then 2 rows of flat block ontop of that ,I have an outside wall of retaining wall block and put foam insulation between the outside and inside .you can see it in construction part

 

[Gordo33]

Bottom drain- I do believe it is best to have one but do I have to cut the liner to install one? Is it possible to make an internal bottom drain? T

You can add a retro or above the liner bottom drain. I use one . I can post some pics this weekend.

 

[GBBUDD]

epdm rubber if covered from uv rays it can last 20 plus years

In shade I would think it would be a lot easier for algae but more maintenance 6 hours sun is needed for sum loving plants.

circular is easiest to maintain

Lets try that again
In the shade you will have less of a fight with algae and it will be a lot easier to maintain.

More maintenance meaning all the leaves you will have to deal with.

6 hours of sun is needed for SUN Loving plants

 

[Lisak1]

l have learned NO GRAVEL!

You've already gotten good answers to what kind of liner and how to build a pond that's partially above ground, but I'll add two things: if you learned no gravel, then you learned wrong. There's nothing wrong with gravel in a pond. Some people PREFER no gravel as they feel it makes their pond easier to clean. But having gravel in your pond has benefits as well. If you're interested in that concept, search for eco-system pond building.

Also in 5B (same zone as me) there's no need for a 4 foot deep pond. Many, many ponds in our zone are built 24-36 inches deep and the fish live in the pond all year with no issues. My own pond is right around 3 feet deep at the deepest part. Build it deeper if you choose, but don't do it because someone told you it was a requirement. A deeper pond adds construction challenges, but it can also make it more difficult to maintain if you have plants and want to be able to get in to care for them. At four feet deep, I'd be swimming, not walking.

Just some thoughts! Keep asking questions - lots of smart and helpful pond folks here with all kinds of ponds!

 

[Billie]

You've already gotten good answers to what kind of liner and how to build a pond that's partially above ground, but I'll add two things: if you learned no gravel, then you learned wrong. There's nothing wrong with gravel in a pond. Some people PREFER no gravel as they feel it makes their pond easier to clean. But having gravel in your pond has benefits as well. If you're interested in that concept, search for eco-system pond building.

Also in 5B (same zone as me) there's no need for a 4 foot deep pond. Many, many ponds in our zone are built 24-36 inches deep and the fish live in the pond all year with no issues. My own pond is right around 3 feet deep at the deepest part. Build it deeper if you choose, but don't do it because someone told you it was a requirement. A deeper pond adds construction challenges, but it can also make it more difficult to maintain if you have plants and want to be able to get in to care for them. At four feet deep, I'd be swimming, not walking.

Just some thoughts! Keep asking questions - lots of smart and helpful pond folks here with all kinds of ponds!

Thank you! I have asked why 4ft several times. My first pond had one end that was 4 ft. and one that was 18", neither of them froze. I want the first ledge to be shallow {3 to 4 inches) enough to sit a few potted plants & a place for my nephews to sit in the water but it isn't deep. I then thought about another ledge down about 16 inches & then down to the bottom.

 

[Lisak1]

I want the first ledge to be shallow {3 to 4 inches) enough to sit a few potted plants & a place for my nephews to sit in the water but it isn't deep. I then thought about another ledge down about 16 inches & then down to the bottom.

Remember you want your first shelf to be able to hold the rocks for your edge - if you're doing a standard boulder edge that is. (If you're doing flagstone edge it's different.) The first ledge should be deep enough for your rocks to be about 1/3 in the water, 2/3 out of the water with the liner folded up behind the back side of the rock. This will also give you places to tuck in some marginal plants that just like to have their feet wet. Then your next shelf will hold plants in pots - 12 to 16 inches deep is about right. Make that shelf wide enough to hold a plant pot - and remember liner and rocks will take up some of the space on that shelf too. Then drop off to the bottom.

We put in a standing rock - a big flat rock that looks like it overhangs the pond. It's a good place to stand and observe the fish, but it's also a great spot for someone to sit and hang your feet in the water. Not an original idea by any means - you see it on lots of ponds! But it's a good thing to plan for in your build. Some pond builders call it a "destination rock" - it's a clear indication that "here's a good place to stand".

 

[Gordo33]

Is it possible to make an internal bottom drain? Thanks in advance for all the help!!!!

This is my set up for a retro or above the liner bottom drain.
I use two 2” trash pump strainers for the bottom drain.
They are connected to 2” PVC with a tee in the middle reducing the plumbing to 1”
I added a check valve to the 1” PVC before it connects to the flex tubing.

The flex tubing runs into the skimmer box which houses a pump dedicated to the drain.

Prior to this year the pump ran to a stock tank that is set up as a veggie filter and returned the water to the pond via a stream.
I didn’t want all the muck going to the veggie filter so I now have a separate box/filter for the water coming from the retro bottom drain. Inside the box is Matala pads and quilt batting in front of the outlets. The outlets are two inches and reduce down to one inch before entering the pond.
This picture shows the drain sitting just over 3 ft down before adding new plumbing.

 

[Billie]

Thank you all so much! I greatly appreciate all the help & ideas.