POND VACS --MUCK MOP

[Mmathis]

WATERBUG, can you help out with this one?

Since I'm just starting out, not sure I need to spend the big bucks for a pond vac just yet, or even if I'll even need one. And we currently really just don't have enough storage space. Have read comments on this & other sites, plus cruised web sites & product reviews. The " Muck Mop" looks interesting, but of course there's not much feedback info out there.

Is it really as easy to make as it seems? Any recent upgrades, updates, or other developments? Does the " sump pump" need to be submerged (like for the Silt Vac), or can it be an external sump-type pump? We could use our pond pump, I guess. Just disconnect from the filter and connect to the vac (it's a 3600 gph, solids handling pump)?

Anyone else have feedback?

 

[Waterbug]

Is it really as easy to make as it seems?

Depends on your skill level. For people used to building stuff it's easy. First time DIY it would be a nightmare. Getting the parts is difficult imo. The weakest part is where the nozzle attaches to the body but it can be beefed up.

Any recent upgrades, updates, or other developments?

Not to the vacuum. However in pond keeping there's been some advances in bottom drain systems which make vacuums less needed. Back in the day when I developed this vacuum there were several people interested in vacuums and many different types were created.

Does the " sump pump" need to be submerged (like for the Silt Vac), or can it be an external sump-type pump?

External is fine.

We could use our pond pump, I guess. Just disconnect from the filter and connect to the vac (it's a 3600 gph, solids handling pump)?

That should work fine. The pressure on that pump might want to blow the hose off. You can drill more holes, and/or larger holes, in the nozzle to increase flow, which makes a more powerful vacuum, and decrease pressure in the hose to keep things together.

The high flow is what made this a great vacuum for what it does. Same design as the leaf vacuums you can buy for swimming pools that use a garden hose, just many times more powerful.

You do want an open mesh bag. People always wanted to put on a fine mesh bag to catch smaller stuff in theory. But that restricted flow, the water moves out of the nozzle and thru the bag. In heavy muck the fine bag restricted flow and so water would circle around and come out the bottom which is bad. I even sold a fine bag as an option and explained it didn't work very well in most cases, but people still insisted on buying it.

Anyone else have feedback?

I would take what I posted on the web seriously, like pond size. I cleaned a lot of different ponds with these vacuums and others to come up with that info. Pond size is key in picking a vacuum. Next most important is using a 2 step approach. One for removing large matter and another for removing fine muck that remains. However if you vacuum often, like every couple of weeks, you won't get much of a muck build up at all and so the Muck Mop alone was fine.

I used to build and sell these. I sold a couple hundred but my guess is only 5% were ever used. People buy stuff that sound good and that's as far as it goes. So I stopped making them. Vacuuming can be effective but I think for many people is way more learning then they'd like.

 

[Mmathis]

Thanks for the reply! I'm pretty good with DIY [some] stuff, but sure wish you were still making & selling them. I may wait until autumn to try my hand. I can install a cut-off valve on a tube coming from my pump that should let me control the amt of flow.

 

[Waterbug]

I'd modify the nozzle to match the pump, rather than cutting down the flow. Power is a good thing.

I might try making these types of things again some day. I've learned how to form PVC since then and could do a better job. And I'd use a welder instead of PVC glue. But it's pretty far down my to do list.

 

[crsublette]

Anyone else have feedback?

I like the simplicity of WB's silt and muck vacuum. I just wonder about the time required involved in cleaning the debris traps; probably not a big deal if ya routinely vacuum the pond so that it never really gets too dirty. The DIY stuff look cheap enough as long as ya don't go crazy on the pumps and material and does not take much time to build or to maintain during operation. Pumps in addition to other materials can become just as pricey as a good all purpose pond vacuum; I figure this is why ya need to stick to using sump pumps to keep the cost down. If all the labor and material end up costing more than $300, then probably would be cheaper to find an all-purpose professional pond vacuum that comes with a warranty.

I would have tried the DIY options, but I just wanted something so I got the Oase pond vac. I did a ton of research on this topic, on the not DIY'd stuff, and all the others just looked like they were either gimmicky or built too cheap. Oase pond vac is a pond vacuum and can be used as a dry shop vac as well if ya take out the wall divider insert. There is a wall divider insert that creates a dual chamber inside the vacuum canister and special float switches connected that allows the vacuum to automatically switch between chambers so you never have to stop vacuuming the pond. String algae can prevent the special plastic doors from closing so tough string algae or long grasses might cause issues every once and a while. Only trouble I have had is with the gasket seal breaking allowing some water to get to the motor, which I resealed the gasket and everything is ok. I have never had problems with suction power, such as other reviews suggest. However, if you connect enough tubing and altitude of vacuum is low vs pond water level, then I can see how suction power reduces; I can see how ya can have the same problems with sump pumps due to head height and friction loss reducing suction potential. I created a crevice tool out of PVC, that I connected to the pond vac, and it is able to pickup all sorts of junk between rock cracks.

I would do the DIY stuff, but just make sure you're not spending too much on labor and material and not making the vacuum job more work.

 

[Mmathis]

I would do the DIY stuff, but just make sure you're not spending too much on labor and material and not making the vacuum job more work.

Already considered that. Have a couple of pumps, and am pretty good working with PVC stuff, though know quite well how something "simple" can turn out to be a nightmare! My husband's favorite thing to say is, " If I'd known it was going to be this much trouble......"

 

[Waterbug]

As I said, depends on the pond. The Oase pond vac is fine for small ponds. A nightmare in a large pond. And you see that in the reviews, and this is true for all vacuums. Some people think vac X is the greatest, other people think it's worthless. Totally depends on the person's expectations and the pond.

BTW, back in the day a several people installed check valves on shop vacs. Turn off the vac and the tank emptied. Sounded good, but few thought much of it for many reasons.

 

[crsublette]

Yeah, the Oase pond vac lacks the power for pond that are really wide or quite deep. I read the same reviews. I think it is due to all of the power loss due to head height and friction loss from using more tubing and hosing for reach and more changes in altitude from various depths. You would run into the same problems with all pumps, but much easier to change the pump out for something stronger in a DIY setup; with manufactured pond vacs like Oase, you're stuck with the motor it came with.

I saw those shop vac to pond vac conversions. They weren't pretty. They worked kind of ... if ya didn't mind waiting for the vacuum chamber to empty. There are even booster pumps made by some shop vac manufacturers to help with tank drainage ... still very slow.

 

[Waterbug]

When I removed silt from a large pond it generally lost about 5-10% of the water volume. So that was in the 500-1000 gal range. So with the 2.6 gal capacity it means waiting for 200-500 emptying cycles. A nightmare.

Small diameter hose = lots of string algae clogs.

But you're probably just playing with me Charles. Guess I fell for that again. Doh! You're a funny guy.

 

[crsublette]

Yeah, if I keep suction on at 100% for the Oase, then my water loss is 10~20% depending on how much stuff I gotta suck up and how much time wasted from having to remove the rocks it sucks up, wasted time equates to more water loss. At 100% suction, I am able to move along quite fast, but rocks getting sucked up, slowing me down, is very aggravating. There is a suction release slide to reduce suction power, so less water loss, but I have to go a bit slower to make sure I get everything. It would have been an interesting implement to have your Muck Mop collection bag, where the vac motor could turn into a blower to be used to blow the big stuff into the collection bag, then switch it to suction the stuff you have collected in the bag; this way ya wouldn't have to pull out the implement every time to empty the collection bag.

Emptying cycles are continuous with the Oase Pond Vac. Suction never stops ... except maybe at most 2 seconds for it to switch to the empty chamber. Never wasting time to dump any bag or container.

Depends on how the string algae is fed into the hose. If ya just straight up start sucking, then it will clog. Oase Pond Vac actually has a special string algae attachment so that it is not allowed to clump up inside the hose. This attachment has slits so the string algae goes in straight like a noodle, rather than as a clump. As I mentioned, the string algae just can sometimes prevent the special drain rubber doors to not close all the way, which only means the chamber will always be draining, not exactly a bad thing.

Just being honest and not in the story telling business.

Nah man, not trying to have fun with ya ... this time.

Hey man, the way ya get in your posts sometimes just cracks me up, don't stop. Hope ya don't take this wrong. Ya just remind me of some guys at the Elks lodge. Good guys. I mess with them a little too.

 

[Waterbug]

Nah man, not trying to have fun with ya ... this time.

Oh I'm not falling for the old double switch back "I'm not playing with you...oh yeah I am". Fool me once. I have your number now.

 

[Waterbug]

Ya just remind me of some guys at the Elks lodge.

Sounds like a great lodge.

 

[crsublette]

Only place I know of where drinking beer goes to a good cause. Elks is a big organization, started the veterans hospistal in Amarillo, and has all sorts of charitable stuff going on. Gotta pay dues to enter the Elks so not just any drunkard can walk in there, not say'n a few don't drink a bit much in there. They're nationwide so check it out.

 

[Peggy]

Just read reviews on the oasis vacs , the bigger 300.00 one looks good but I just do not want to spend 300.00 for one. Waterbu , if u decide to make more muck mops please let me know. Thanks!

 

[Waterbug]

Maybe someday. I have learned more about forming plastic so that could be fun.