RED and Cloudy water?

[Nepen]

Hi Charles,
Thanks for the informative post How long are you talking about for the rain to obsorb the contaminant in surrounding area? The rain I tested was from a dry empty plastic bowl and a dry glass jar that was outside most of the time. The rain was 2 days old when I tested the lasted one.

So I should try to test the rain water that I collect directly from the sky that has not touched anything else?

When other people test the rain and got 5-6~ pH, did they also use the control method or they are just tested from the souce like rain barrel and stuff?

 

[crsublette]

Hi Charles,
Thanks for the informative post 1) How long are you talking about for the rain to obsorb the contaminant in surrounding area? 2) The rain I tested was from a dry empty plastic bowl and a dry glass jar that was outside most of the time. The rain was 2 days old when I tested the lasted one.

3) So I should try to test the rain water that I collect directly from the sky that has not touched anything else?

4) When other people test the rain and got 5-6~ pH, did they also use the control method or they are just tested from the souce like rain barrel and stuff?

3) So I should try to test the rain water that I collect directly from the sky that has not touched anything else?

Well, it is impossible for the rain "from the sky to not touch anything else". This is where air pollution from a big city or near a factory or other stuff like this become involved. So, it really depends on where you live.

1) How long are you talking about for the rain to obsorb the contaminant in surrounding area?

I can not say how long it would take for the absorption to occur. I would assume it is quite fast since it happens as the rain is falling to the ground.

2) The rain I tested was from a dry empty plastic bowl and a dry glass jar that was outside most of the time. The rain was 2 days old when I tested the lasted one.

If you are quite confident the plastic bowl and glass jar was quite clean, then there will still be a slight residue in the container that may increase the pH.

Also, keep in mind that carbonic acid artificially reduces water's pH; so, as the water sits in the container and is stirred, then much of the carbonic acid is released from the water as a gas, that is carbon dioxide, and this will increase the water's pH. It does not take much agitation at all for this to happen. The agitation created by a faucet aerator or simple fountain is simply enough to release much of the gas within a matter of seconds or minutes.

4) When other people test the rain and got 5-6~ pH, did they also use the control method or they are just tested from the souce like rain barrel and stuff?

Yep, with professionals or more avid enthusiasts, they use particular control methodologies for better biological security so they can get a more accurate result, but there is only so much you can control. Also, this would be overkill for our context. In general, when rain is being tested for acidity, they use some control methods.

Most common folk are just testing their rain water out of whatever receptacle that stored the water, which is fine, but it is not a true accurate test of their rain water. Again, for our context, it would overkill to have a higher accuracy. So, it is quite fine to test your water that is stored from whatever reasonably clean receptacle, but keep the contaminant variable in mind.

This is what drives me crazy about folk that just let roof water to end up in the pond due to the products folk use to clean their roofs. It is not much different than water run off from a street; well, this is a bit of an exaggeration, but not far from it !! :faint:

:squint: This is why I always push my rain water through a simple carbon filter. This is probably overkill as well, but I learn about this stuff to make me paranoid. :ugh:

So, now, I am sharing this knowledge so you can worry like I do. :lol:

 

[Nepen]

lol The rain that end up in my pond just go through some leaves and branches (and all the polution in the air stuff but I wont go there ;p) since it's a raised pond. The only thing I use my rain water in my rain barrel is for my plants.

So my thought is if it's very easy for the pH in rain water to rise, then why when other people tested their rain it's in the 5-6 ranges (normal people, not so control environment) and why not we see a lot more of the pH in higher rage reported (not report per-say but people like me who did a simple test and got to 7~ pH) Or do they test the rain and get higher pH and they just accept that it could be from contamination?

Or do people test their rain? and if they get 5-6, how did they collect the water, so that when I try to test again I can see if I can do the same and get a different result. And I'm not talking about overkilll stuff.

BUT - I live in a downtown area (not a big city though), that could cause the pH to be different but isnt that supposed to lower the pH and not raise it? (Acid rain in the city with lots of pollution)

sorry for lots of questions Judt dont mind me, i'm rambling now.

 

[crsublette]

lol The rain that end up in my pond just go through some leaves and branches (and all the polution in the air stuff but I wont go there ;p) since it's a raised pond. The only thing I use my rain water in my rain barrel is for my plants.

1) So my thought is if it's very easy for the pH in rain water to rise, then why when other people tested their rain it's in the 5-6 ranges (normal people, not so control environment) and why not we see a lot more of the pH in higher rage reported (not report per-say but people like me who did a simple test and got to 7~ pH) Or do they test the rain and get higher pH and they just accept that it could be from contamination?

Or do people test their rain? and if they get 5-6, how did they collect the water, so that when I try to test again I can see if I can do the same and get a different result. And I'm not talking about overkilll stuff.

2) BUT - I live in a downtown area (not a big city though), that could cause the pH to be different but isnt that supposed to lower the pH and not raise it? (Acid rain in the city with lots of pollution)

sorry for lots of questions Judt dont mind me, i'm rambling now.

Atmospheric air is composed of all sorts of gases. Water's alkalinity controls how easy it is for these gases to penetrate and absorb into the water. Even though atmospheric air is composed of only around .04% carbon dioxide, the water's lack of alkalinity allows this very small amount to have a tremendous impact on the water's pH.

As the rain is falling, the water droplet's surface area has a much higher contact with the atmospheric air.

Once the water is in a container, the atmospheric air's surface area contact with the water is significantly reduced.

So, then the gases are locked into the water due to a electrochemical bond created by air pressure at the water's surface. Much of the gases will naturally dissipate out of the water, which this would raise the water's pH, but, if the receptacle is quite deep, then the pressure created by the depth forces the water's electrochemical bond to maintain a lock on the gas. So, agitation is used to bring this water from the bottom to the surface to release this pressure, thus release this bond. Although, since water still has an innate electrochemical bond, not all of the gases are released.

In the ocean, the pressure can become so high that the gases turn into a more pure liquid formation. There is actually research dwelling into the harvest of these deep ocean gases.

In the ocean, fish are quite aware of these gaseous layers and know where to not swim.

This is why, whenever a lake dam breaks, then the subsequent flooding can cause massive aquatic kills in the river where it dumps due to the sudden release of all of the gases, which are quite toxic at various concentrations to aquatic life.


1) So my thought is if it's very easy for the pH in rain water to rise, then why when other people tested their rain it's in the 5-6 ranges (normal people, not so control environment) and why not we see a lot more of the pH in higher rage reported (not report per-say but people like me who did a simple test and got to 7~ pH) Or do they test the rain and get higher pH and they just accept that it could be from contamination?

Or do people test their rain? and if they get 5-6, how did they collect the water, so that when I try to test again I can see if I can do the same and get a different result. And I'm not talking about overkilll stuff.


It can go both ways dependent on the pollution.

There is air pollution that can make water incredibly acidic and then there is surface pollution that can make water incredibly alkaline.

I think the mode and type of pollution determines how "easy it is" for change in the water's pH.


2) BUT - I live in a downtown area (not a big city though), that could cause the pH to be different but isnt that supposed to lower the pH and not raise it? (Acid rain in the city with lots of pollution)

The depth of your bowl and glass jar are quite shallow in the grand scheme of it all. I would not be surprised to see the pH rise rather quick once the rain water is contained.

 

[crsublette]

I am just a simple farmer that enjoys doing my homework. :banana:

I most definitely can be wrong!! :cheerful:

 

[Nepen]

Thanks Charles, I enjoy reading your shared knowledge get me thinking and stuff :ideacyclops:

I will try to test the rain in different ways and see what result variations I can get - love the drop test, pretend like I'm a scientist hehe :coolgleema:

 

[Nepen]

Just an update -

The water is now a lot clearer and the water is staying red/brownish just like a few days ago when I did the water change. Dont really know why the pond got all murky like that but glad it's now clearer and I'm pretty sure it'll be clear by the end of this week.

Got the activated carbon and is going to put it in the pond so hopefully to help with the color

Thanks guys.

I really couldn't believe it'd be from just leaves releasing tenin into the water!!

 

[HARO]

I ran into this problem about 30 years ago, when I installed a pre-form pond in my parents' garden. The water stayed clear for about four days, and then turned a deep red colour. I waited about a week, then did a complete water change. The red colour never returned, even when that pond was replaced with a MUCH larger liner pond. The culprit APPEARED to be algae, and there were minute particles floating in the water as well as growing on the liner. I've heard of this from two other ponders, but this was the only time I actually saw it! FWIW, this pond was shaded most of the day by tall evergreens, but they were well back, and fwe needles ever got into the pond. And the water was from a well.
John

 

[Nepen]

Thanks for sharing John. I read once about the brown algae for shade pond too, but they said it's pretty rare. I have quite a lot of mechanical filter though (pre-filter box with 3 type of filter, coarse, fine and super fine) and also more quilt batting in the waterfall (after the pre-filter) so I'd think that would help with the floating algae. It could be that the algae has something to do with it but I think the main problem was the falling leaves. After I took most of the leaves off and did 50-60%water change, changed all new filter pads - the water still brown (but a lot better) but I can live with that amount of tint

I do not see brown algae on the liner though, will have to look. I might thought the brown algaes are just dirts, that's possible