Salt in pond water?

[crsublette]

Yep, that is why I would want to warm it to 60*F~65*F or higher, instead of 50*F. Warmer is always better since you don't even have to begin thinking about all this craziness. Warmer prevents the roller coaster to start in the first place. Yeah, if I had the resources, then I would want the roller coaster to never start or take the koi inside if I had the means or desire.

Unfortunately, I am just going to roll with the punches in my watergarden and hope for the best when Spring comes around.

The article does give good advice about salt and affects of water temperature.

 

[Craig58]

I think warming an outdoor pond to over 60F and keeping it there in Alberta, CA is pretty much an unrealistic possibility. Unless your name is Bill Gates or Sam Walton and money is a none issue. The only way would be to cover the pond with a pool solar blanket, cover it all with plastic, and use some type of renewable energy for heating the pond water. Maybe a geothermal system. Pretty tall bill!!!

I would think you want the water temps to go quickly from 60 to

 

[crsublette]

Yeah, if ya had the means, ya would want to cool or heat the water to keep it out of that range or take the fish inside. Meh, I'll just hope everything turns out ok. Still good to know.

Interesting information.

In Texas the average yearly temperature is 64.8 so I would imagine that two feet or more below that, the ground temps are about the same at 62-67. Of course Texas is big so I'm sure the average in the panhandle areas is much lower than around the gulf or in the southern part of the state.

Heh, yeah. Texas has all the climates. Ground temperature is something that farmers pay attention to a bit and I can tell ya our ground temperature definitely does not average in the 60s, or even above the 50s, otherwise we would be irrigating our winter wheat all winter long. Around here, the top foot of soil fluctuates from 30~50*F range. We have had trees and vegetation come to life in February then a hard freeze in late February through March significantly hurts them. Winter wheat is a pretty good indicator of how quick the ground temperature at the top foot can change.

 

[crsublette]

Good thread. I have learned quite a bit.

If anyone were to ask me, I would just do one .3% salinity dose once the water temperature cooled to 50~60*F. Continue small water changes thoughout Winter to dilute this salinity so that the salinity does not cause problems in very cold waters by changing the water's density. Then, as the water temperature warms up to 50~60*F, then do one dose of .3% salinity for Spring.

.3% salinity is actually quite high. I would still be very careful about dosages. If you do not know your exact gallons and can not figure the precise dosage, then do a "dose, wait, and test" approach while adding small increments of salt until you finally reach .3% salinity.

 

[waynefrcan]

Yes wow, lots of reading to do here. Thanks for the overwhelming support on this issue.

Mucky, yes please post temp readings over this winter for us.

Craig, O2 meter to high price for my needs.

 

[waynefrcan]

My last 2 water changes went right to the lawn, and next year to all the shrubs, flowers, tree's. Another great advantage of no salt or less then .1 %.

 

[CliffandJoann]

When we first put in our pond (before all the pond info on the internet was available)
we went to a pond seminar at a local pond nursery and met with the speaker, a Japanese
gentleman. He said at the time that the Japanese were experimenting with tremendous
amouts of salt in their ponds. He recommended we salt our pond in winter and we have done so since.
Does that mean that salting is the absolute fix for all ponds, no, however we have had success so
we'll continue to do so.

To waynes point, the water exchanges go into the lawn; our exchanges in early spring go into
into the lawn as well, and our surrounding plants and flowers are lush and abundant. So the salt
that's still in the pond water in Spring does't seem to stunt the plants in the least.

We also always water all the plants and flowers with the lush pond water from cleaning the
filter boxes and filter pads.

Another point, in early Spring we never disturb the pond bottom, as the fish are at their most
vulnerable state after coming off the cold winter. The pond has been host to many parasites
over the winter, we get our fish built up with feedings for several days before disturbing the bottom.

We've read many times that fish survive the winter only to die in the Spring, thus we think waiting until
the fish are well fed and active before moving around rocks and planting our plants on the shelves
and cleaning the beach is a good practice.

 

[koiguy1969]

i let water onto the lawn at water changes at .1 5% with no ill effects on my lawn what so ever.... been doing it for years. if fact its one of the fullest greenest areas.

 

[Dave 54]

[sup]Basically if your fish wanted to live in salt they would live in the sea , you must remember that salt does not evaporate and stays in the water until removed by numerous water changes .[/sup]
[sup]Salt should be reserved for short term baths and in a Quarentine tank of some sort ,[/sup]
[sup]It can also cause in the case of a high Ph level pond, the treatment with fomalin and malachite that treatment to become toxic and a danger to your fish.[/sup]
[sup]So I would suggest you stop using salt in your pond right away or start keeping marine fish instead. [/sup]
[sup]rgrds[/sup]
[sup]Dave[/sup]

 

[waynefrcan]

I think the trend now with much more info then 15 years ago, is to move away from salt water.

Just as all rocked ponds where considered a must for pond health. Many ponder examples at this forum prove otherwise.

 

[koiguy1969]

i would worry much more about keeping the treating with chemicals, including formalin and malachite in a quarentine or hospital tank than salt. so you do your thing ..i'll do mine!
the levels of salt are no where near the levels "in salt water".

 

[Dave 54]

You know there are people in the fish world that always never listen to well intentioned fish keepers of many year experiance
There is a move away from chemicals going on at the moment with melafix and other treatments such as Propolis, koi clear gel an ozonated treatment that is a wonder treatment for ulcers and through experimentation we are finding other uses for it on koi such as damage to your fish, garlic has been found to protect koi against parasites and is a way to get a fish that has stopped eating to eat again .
Formalin and malchite was just an example of how salt mixed with a treament and high ph can trn a pond toxic.
Salt in ponds is normally a one off tretment as a general rule you should aviod adding salt to a pond as it is known to limit the use of other medications or can be used in short term baths.
As I previously stated it does not degrade in the pond and can only be removed with waterchanges but you are then adding more salt than you are removing mening it will be building up in your pond
You can however use it at very low temperatures when some medications become ineffective

Dave

 

[callingcolleen1]

In all my 21 years of ponding it, I only "played" with salt once, and that was long long ago, in the begining, and did NOT have good results! So I Never added salt now for 20 years, fish doing very good, I figure that because my tap water here is naturally hard and very high PH, over 9, and I figure there is enough naturally occuring minerals and salt already in our water here in town.

 

[callingcolleen1]

About that earlier discussion on cold weather and koi... I live here in zone 2/3 and my koi have been wintering outside, under the ice, with water flowing, and a heater after air temperature drops to below minis 10c or around 17 f, and the fish have been outside for 20 years now with no visible negative effects! Fish seem fine every spring, and I have not ever found a dead koi!

 

[Dave 54]

My friend in Fort St John lost koi after koi due to the temperatures they had to endure , we found that in the spring the larger koi had lost nearly all of their gills bar a bit at the top of the gill.
At first we thought it something else but eventually came to the conclusion that as the weather heated up and the pond bacame warmer the little bit of gill space they had left meant that they couldn't survive.
For the last few years after much discussion with her it was decided to move her fish to an indoor pond in her husbands work shop.
The net result of this being that all her fish came through with flying colours with no more deaths of her large koi , which she is very pleased with.
She uses her barrel filters from outside on the indoor pond so everything is matured well for them to live throughout the winter months.

These two photo's bellow will give you an idea what she was up against prior to the move indoors





Just look at the depth of ice she had to contend having to chop holes in the ice daily god knows the stress she was forced to put them under by using an axe but what lse could you do to maintain an airway .
I've never in all my koi keeping days seen air bubbles form a beautiful sculpture like the photo shown above .



rgrds

Dave