Slowing Down Already?

Discussion in 'Fish & Koi Talk' started by Cynthia Shelton, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. Cynthia Shelton

    Cynthia Shelton

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    I have had my pond for a little over 15 years. It is only Sept. 3 and the fish seem to be really slowing down already - to the point of sitting on the bottom. I do not believe it is that cold already - I am in Ohio. Thermometer is broken, but water can't be that cold already. Plus - today I found a dead koi. This does not seem normal. I have had the pond going into October in past years. Any ideas? My koi are very old and dear to me. This was a crushing blow. Thank you.
     
    Cynthia Shelton, Sep 3, 2017
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  2. Cynthia Shelton

    Jhn

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    Sorry for the loss of your koi. Could be a predator visited the pond. Herons will often spear fish, killing them and then leave them for dead in the pond especially large fish. When a heron comes by my pond, the fish sit completely still in and under the large corrugated pipe I sunk in the pond.

    Any visible injuries on the dead koi?
     
    Jhn, Sep 3, 2017
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  3. Cynthia Shelton

    Cynthia Shelton

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    Not that kind. I have a huge Dragon Tongue plant that grows upright in the spring and then falls over into the water due to weight and wind and nicely covers almost half of the surface area. Most of the fish are hiding under there right now, but the ones that are out are sitting on the bottom like they do during hibernation. I will get some pics of the deceased and post them.
     
    Cynthia Shelton, Sep 3, 2017
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  4. Cynthia Shelton

    Lisak1

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    Oh, boy. That's too bad! I agree with you - it's been cool here, too, but not enough to send the fish into winter mode. I wondered too, if you had something go after your fish and they are spooked. Any other signs or symptoms? Some pictures will be helpful!
     
    Lisak1, Sep 3, 2017
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  5. Cynthia Shelton

    IPA

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    If you don't already, get the water aerated. I don't know what the problem may be but aerating at a high level getting as much oxygen in the water will help them until you can figure out the problem.
     
    IPA, Sep 4, 2017
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  6. Cynthia Shelton

    ZEROPILOT Faster than you are.

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    I'm assuming that you've tested your water parameters?
    The fish sitting on the bottom and one actually dead says something is stressing them out.
    Could it be a spike in the system?
     
    ZEROPILOT, Sep 4, 2017
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  7. Cynthia Shelton

    sissy sissy

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    Sorry to hear about your fish .Are you sure it was not a predator since the others are hiding
     
    sissy, Sep 4, 2017
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  8. Cynthia Shelton

    Faebinder

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    Whats the water tests looking like? Ammonia, nitrites, ph etc...
     
    Faebinder, Sep 4, 2017
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  9. Cynthia Shelton

    Cynthia Shelton

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    A friend is using my test kit, so cannot test until tomorrow. I did a partial water change today - added some pond salt as a tonic plus a dechlorinator with stress coat in it. Unfortunately found two more fatalities. I may have cried. :cry: I have a really powerful aerator, plus a waterfall, plus a spitter so I don't think oxygen is a problem. The second and third casualties have no marks or disease looking areas at all. I use a skimmer filter. The water is really clear - and was so even before the change. The remaining fish seem to be doing fine, but I will remain cautiously vigilant. I have never had a problem with raccoons or herons. Do the fish really sit on the bottom out of fear? The water is too deep for a raccoon to go in, but I suppose if one was swimming near the surface he would be in danger. Thanks for the input. I am just crushed.
     
    Cynthia Shelton, Sep 4, 2017
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  10. Cynthia Shelton

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Have you increased the level of biofiltration as the Koi have grown? What size is this pond )Gallons)
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 4, 2017
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  11. Cynthia Shelton

    Cynthia Shelton

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    No I have not. It's about 2500 gallons. The fish have seemed to have stopped growing - they have been the same for several years now. (Unless since I see them everyday I don't notice any growth.) They do spawn and only last year has one managed to survive and grow. He's a nice size now, but when they were much smaller I would have a bunch of new ones every year. Friend with my test kit decided to leave on vacation this morning, and although she promised to drop it off before leaving - she didn't . Not cool at all!! And I gave her a lot of help with her pond. I am disgusted with her. The fish are looking better today - pretty active and interested in eating. Most important - no fatalities overnight. A couple of them are still laying low with little movement. Cautiously optimistic.
     
    Cynthia Shelton, Sep 6, 2017
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  12. Cynthia Shelton

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    Have you recently added any new fish?
     
    Mmathis, Sep 6, 2017
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  13. Cynthia Shelton

    Faebinder

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    Buy a new kit they aren't expensive.
     
    Faebinder, Sep 6, 2017
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  14. Cynthia Shelton

    bettasngoldfish Maria

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    That is exactly what I was going to ask
     
    bettasngoldfish, Sep 6, 2017
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  15. Cynthia Shelton

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    We've been trained well!
     
    Mmathis, Sep 7, 2017
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  16. Cynthia Shelton

    Cynthia Shelton

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    Well - I'm embarrassed to say, but yes. I guess after so many years without a fatality I was feeling a little bit invincible. My friend with the pond was having water issues and she only had one fish left so I told her I would house it until she got it together. Because of the size of my pond, everything seemed great for almost a month, then the illness must have set in. So - not only did her fish die, but I ultimately ended up losing 4 of mine and there is still one who is very lethargic and I am afraid he is not going to pull out of it. The water change really seemed to help because the rest are swimming and very active - like they should be. Word to the wise - QUARANTINE - better yet - don't take in fish from anyone but a reputable dealer. I guess there is no way to say for SURE that is what happened, but my fish were totally healthy until the newcomer. Live and learn I guess. Still hard to take. :unsure:
     
    Cynthia Shelton, Sep 10, 2017
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  17. Cynthia Shelton

    IPA

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    Did you get a new test kit? The API Pond Master between $25 and $35 is a very good value and available at most online stores that carry pond equipment as well as the big box pet stores and local B&M's. You may have heard that fish grow to the size of the pond, but really they grow to the amount and quality of the filtration. It's possible your friend's fish was sick already or just it was too much for your filtration though it doesn't sound like you had a lot of fish for that size pond, how big were they? At 2,500 gallons your pond could just about sustain a few small fish with not much (Not Zero) need for filtration but it will really depend on the bio-load you are putting on the available nitrifying and other beneficial bacteria. Something is wrong with the water, be it chemicals from environmental exposure, something that may have killed off the bacteria, or possibly illness in fish. In the case of the later however, it is usually poor water quality that allows the illness to overcome the fish's ability to fight it. Many people post about dying fish here only to discover that they or someone else used a chemical that somehow found its way into the water, so think hard if you used anything, or possibly your neighbors, around the time you first noticed a problem. That said, without knowing the quality of the water by way of testing with a proper kit, it's difficult for others to guide you in the right direction.
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
    IPA, Sep 12, 2017
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  18. Cynthia Shelton

    Cynthia Shelton

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    Paul - I tested my water today with that exact kit, plus an additional test for copper. All tests came out good. The phosphate level was high, but it is not toxic. I took a jar of the water to a man who runs a koi store, Plus, I took him one of two MORE fatalities from my pond. The total now at 7. :( I told him the whole ugly story, and as soon as I mentioned the added fish he knew that was the culprit. He looked at the water and said not to even bother testing it - it looked great. He put on gloves and we went outside to look at the fish. He said the body looked okay and then looked in the gill. Ugh. I could not even look. He told me they should be a healthy red, but this fish's were grey. They were all "stuck together" - in short, I think he suffocated. He told me the name of several parasites that would probably be visible with a scrape of the fish under a microscope. I blame myself 100%. I know better than to dump a new fish in - where was my brain? He said it was not a matter of "if" the rest will perish, but "when." The parasite that was introduced is probably in all of them by now, and only the strongest have survived. The only hope I have is a product called MinFin. It is approved by the FDA for use with ornamental fish. It is applied by dosing according to gallons in the pond, so you have to be pretty darn exact or you will kill the fish. It contains an acid, so gloves and goggles are essential. You mix it in water in a bucket, then pour it into an area with high aeration. After ONE HOUR you pour in the neutralizer that you have ready, and that should be it. No water change is needed, and the chemical turns to, or produces dissolved oxygen. A win-win. If you don't know about this stuff, look it up. It's a little pricey, but to save the rest of my fish, I think I am going to give it a go. I feel so rotten about this. I feel bad for my fish. :sorry:
     
    Cynthia Shelton, Sep 13, 2017
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  19. Cynthia Shelton

    IPA

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    @Cynthia Shelton . I am so sorry about the loss of your fish and am glad you are treating the remaining ones.
     
    IPA, Sep 14, 2017
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  20. Cynthia Shelton

    Gemma

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    Gemma, Sep 14, 2017
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