some advice to start

[Fantazmic]

Hi everyone

I am new to the list so I am hoping that the pic of my pond has attached to this post.

I have a question

The pond I am planning to set up is pretty small 130 cm's long by 80 cms wide by 30 cms deep for the larger pond and the smaller one is 53 by 63 cm's.

I am planning on just putting two little goldfish in it and if they grow then....well I will have to get a bigger pond !! We are planning to eventually put alarger pond in the backyard and so this one is just to have near the front door as a feature.

I live in australia so there is no issue with over wintering the pond or it freezing. I have a nice part shade location planned and so I think it will work really well for our climate.

My question is this. I have been wondering if I could set up like a mini bog biological filtration system in the top pond to then trickle down into the lower pond.

My thought was to put gravel and plants in the top pond and run water via a pump from the bottom of the top pond through the gravel and plants so that it would then trickle into the bottom pond. Do you think this would work to create some effective biologial filtration ?

I havent been able to find any posts from anyone who has set up a small preformed pond like this.

I have had some experience with aquariums and so know the importance of the biological setup of the pond to make it a success and am in no hurry to put fish in or anything like that and so have the time to tinker with the pond to get it set up just right.

Also would you advise a small amount of gravel in the large pond ?

From my reading it seems as though the principles around the setup of the pond are similar to aquariums its just the outdoor concept and how the filters are set up etc I have to get my head around

Kind Regards

Elizabeth

 

[Waterbug]

Sounds good.

I don't know what kind of heat you get but here in Phoenix that size pond would be pretty tough I think depending on location. I tried it once with Mosquito Fish and it didn't have a happy ending.

I wouldn't put gravel in the small pond just because it would be harder to clean. A small pond is just like a larger pond with a ton of fish, what people call "fish load" as you no doubt already know from aquariums. I think your setup is more like an aquarium than most water gardens.

So while most water gardens don't need any biofilter you probably will. Or weekly water changes like in an aquariums. Water gardens only have to be cleaned once a year, once every five years...not very often. High fish load a clean pond is important. But you're lucky, a simple minnow net and a few quick scoops every few days is enough. Gravel makes that harder. Gravel at the bottom doesn't help much with biofiltering, it's generally low O2. Unless you do an upflow deal through the gravel. But being so small I'd hate to trade water volume for gravel. I'd rather set a strawberry pot trickle filter in the small pond instead if needed.

You could consider buying a small air pump just in case you see a problem...if temps get too high, etc.

Testing the water is really important with this setup, high fish load again. Most ponds can get by without it.

Hope you'll post some pictures when you get there. For now I have to live vicariously through other people's ponds.

 

[Waterbug]

Oh, and consider predators too. Racoons, cats, and I know you have a bunch more. Placement of the pond, or structure around the pond that can make netting easy if needed can be easier in the design phase than later.

 

[Fantazmic]

Thanks so much for your advice

the temps here are pretty ambient....doesnt get below 10 degrees C in winter and during the day about the coldest is 12 degrees C and in summer we creep up to 35 - 40 in summer but only for a couple of weeks.

Im worried about the size I think it will be a fraction small which as been my experience with aquariums. I am concerned about the depth more than anything as I think it will be too shallow for the fish. Plus I think the fish will outgrow it in about five minutes which is not what I want !!

I will post pics when it is set up if I decide to buy it or am successful bidding on it

I am going to try and set up the bio filtering system...even if I put the more shallow pond with something larger or even look at setting up a three tier system all I would have to do is add another pond on another level with another small connecting pond.

I am buying my ponds on ebay as they are much cheaper...to buy the fibreglass new here in australia they are a couple of hundred at the cheapest whereas on ebay they are less than $100 I just have to be patient to get the right thing.

Actually a thought I have had is that I could use the bigger pond for the bio bog filter system and get a larger pond to go with it.......and it would all look really natural and pretty together.

Promise I will pst pics when I am done...I am still doing lots of reading and thinking

Elizabeth

 

[Fantazmic]

Here is the second pond I am looking at

So My idea is to have the medium pond set up with plants to create some bio filtration and use the small pond to feed into this larger pond which would have the fish in it

so I would have a pump from the medium sized pond leading into the small pond whch would trickle into the large pond and then a pump feeding from the large pond back into the medium sized pond to keep the water flowing through the system....

I think this will work well....to really help process the amonia in the system plus give me enough room for fish without the system being too big and create good airation and processing of the water.....

I am also looking at solar pumps so the extra pond will be important with the plants to help process the filtration of the water....

So the large pond would be set up with some surface lillies and probably no gravel just set up sepecially for fish and the medium pond would be set up for aquatic plants. although it is quite shallow at 30 cms should be ok to get some aquatic plants growing.

I love the internet..Ive been reading all afternoon !!!!!!!!

 

[Fantazmic]

oh and as for predators we are in Melbourne australia in the city...worst predators will be the neighbourhood cats.....so I might have to make some chicken wire covers or something like that.

possums arent interested in fish....and we dont tend to get lizards......but wouldnt it be wonderful if I got some froggies !!!!!!!!!

 

[Waterbug]

30 cm is extremely shallow outside because it will take on the air temp so fast.

I know everyone says plants make good bio filters, and they are in the general sense. But in a pond they have downsides rarely talked about. They only remove nitrogen, not really very harmful. They add organic matter and nutrients.

I hadn't realized you haven't bought the pond yet...I'm not a fan of performed ponds. If its a look you're after that's different. But if the question is cost and ease of install I think a flexible liner is way cheaper and easier to install. But I'm assuming the performs would be in the ground. If above ground I think temp is going to be a serious problem.

Solar pumps stop working at the very time when you need them most. O2 levels normally drop at night. In a larger pond that might not be a problem and it might not be a problem for you given the huge surface area compared to water volume. But I think you're somewhere close to the edge.

 

[addy1]

A biofilter will work, I used them on my first three small ponds............long time ago lol, and now have a large bio filter for my larger pond.

Your idea of having tiers would work well, if the biofilter/bog/gravel gets mucked up the size would make it conducive to clean with one of those vacuum fish tank gravel cleaners. But here is my disclaimer, I love my bio filters, bog pond set up, it works very well, keeps my pond water perfect. I do not keep koi in my pond.

http://www.drsfoster...93&pcatid=23593 I used something similar to this to clean my 175 gallon fish tank it worked extremely well.

I wouldn't put gravel in the bottom of the pond that is not a filter, it will just make it harder to clean and collect muck.

 

[Fantazmic]

Hi thanks for the advice

The reason we are using the preformed ponds is for ease of installation... and yes they will be in the ground

what is going through my mind is that I might even be able to attract frogs to the medium pond that will be the bog and have fish in the lower big pond.....

I don't know if we will attract frogs we are in a very urban area but we can try......I would love to have frogs in my pond it would be sensational !!

addy1 I would love to know more about how you have set up your bog....do you have a link to another thread I can read about it or any pics ?

Kind regards

Elizabeth

 

[addy1]

http://www.gardenpon...4-bog-building/

Here is a link about building bogs that I wrote up with the help of internet searching. Some call them more of a large plant filter than a bog, I like calling mine a bog lol. I have been really tickled with how well it has kept my pond water and how clear my pond has been.

You would just need to downsize all the information.

Here is my build, way big for what you are doing.

http://www.gardenpon...-started-42110/

 

[Fantazmic]

hi addy 1

Thanks for the link.
From what I unserstand the water is pumped into the bottom of the bog pond and travels through the gravel and sort of travels into the pond.

I am not sure how I am going to make this happen between my two ponds.....as the medium sized pond doesnt have a 'lip' for the water to travel across even if I was to tilt the pond and get it to gravity feed from one to the other if you know what I mean/

so i am not sure if i can get it to work. It has got me stuck !!

 

[addy1]

I have one area of my bog wall low, that creates the waterfall back into the pond. The only thing you could do is cut the lip to create a low area for the water to flow down, stick a pipe in the create an out. Using a preform does cause a few issues lolT

The water does flow up through the gravel, through a ton of plant roots, then back into the pond. I also have mini plant filters in the stream, the small ponds are full of plants that help filter the water on its way back into the pond. Well were full of plants, things are dieing back now for winter, or dead lol

 

[taherrmann4]

Go for it! I think you can make this all work together. Like addy said you will have to cut a low spot in the middle pond to get it to flow into the big pond. What is the first pic pond made of? Is it concrete or plastic? If it is plastic you may be able to heat it up and reform it to create a lip.

I like your idea of making a mini bog and I thought there was someone on here that had made one out of a planter of some sort but my memory is failing me right now and can't think of who or where it is. I wouldn't put gravel in the bigger one but make the two smaller ones your bog would look pretty neat and they are small enough to pull out the plants and clean once a year if you have to, little maintenance.

 

[sissy]

I think it could work and if it doesn't then you just try something different ,the only thing that concerns me is what you said the temps get down to and here that is freezing so you may want to invest in a small pond heater just in case to keep an opening in the ice .Here in Virginia we gets temps that low sometimes in January and my first pond was a large preformed that was 30 inches deep and I had a hard time keeping it from freezing up.Even with a pump bubbling water up in the middle an ice dome formed over the bubbling up water .It looked like I had a big glass ball in the middle of my pond upside down .That was a milder winter also as that winter night temps never go below 20 degrees and day temps were between 40 and 50 degrees .Last winter was the worse winter and I am prepare this winter with a 750 watt pond deicer .But with filters I have changed mine out 6 times to improve filtering and with the larger pond I built I needed larger filters and as the fish got bigger bigger filters .But also I have koi and you are planning on 2 goldfish and remember they have babies .So as they start producing babies you may end up with a few more .Well unless you happen to pick two fish of the same sex and not sure how you tell goldfish sex

 

[HARO]

Sissy; 10C is not freezing; you are thinking in Farenheit. Elizabeth, the biggest problem I can see with your intended set-up is with the two pumps. If I read this correctly, you would pump from the middle pond to the top, which would overflow to the large pond, and a second pump would return water to the middle pond. These two pumps would have to be perfectly syncronized, and if anything impeded the flow of either pump, you could wind up with a dry pond or a burnt-out pump. John