Some fish problem, apparently

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Wow that is fantastic. Its too bad your landscaper did t know what he was doing when it comes to the filtration aspect of ponds and fish keeping. You do have a lot of gallons there but that heavy of a fish load requires a serious amount of filtration. In all seriousness you need something like a 600 gallon bog filter feeding into the top of that waterfall. What is the flow rate on the pump?
 
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Ah ha bingo cracked your ponds problem verygreen you have the parasite Argulus or as its more commonly known fish lice and a beautiful one at that , do I have your permission to copy this one off .
Its in actual fact a crustacaen.
They feed on your fishes blood when they attach themselves to a fish they bite into the fish and as they do they release a sort of toxin which in smaller fish can be fatal in larger ones its enough to give them a really hard time of things Do you know this is the first I've ever come across on a persons fish they are quit e rare nowadays due to extensive Quarentining this must have slipped through the net or was on the koi .
The fish thanx to these bites is then liable to a secondary infection.
The fish start swimming eratically and are irritated by the parastie this is why they are acting so strange , its in part due to the toxins released
They are nocturnal in their mating and the rggs are diposited in the walls of your pond this may be hundereds of eggs ( around 4-500 per female these eggs then take around about two weeks ro hatch into juviniles.
To treat them your going to have to get ahold of someone who knows aout anethatizing fish or try follow my thread each fish is going to have to be put under and checked for adults which you then have to take off by use of tweezers please make sure they have been sterilized first.
Use propolis spray on the bite mark sites to stop any secondary infections of your fish.
To get rid of the juviniles you have to get hold of an organophosphate based treatment see your dealer for this orfe are very sencitive have to ge remobed from the pond and mot returned for about at least four weeks whilst you dose the pond at 7 day intervals.
You'll have to treat three times to make sure you kill all the juviniles and just hope you got all the adult first time around if no more eggs are laid you'll have won and the egg laying cycle busted .
It's a nasty thing to get but you can win but you'll have to work hard for this victory .
Sorry that you have such a nasty parasite I really am .

rgrds

Dave
 

fishin4cars

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OK, now we have something to work with, BTW, great looking pond! The landscaping is really beautiful. I can see the foam, Not that bad, A skimmer would GREATLY help in making that far less noticeable and would add oxygen as it removes the surface film and allows for better oxygen and Co2 exchange. Now here is the million dollar question, Are there rocks in the bottom of the pond? My bet, there is, That just looks like a typical rock bottom setup, and although very pretty IF it could be maintained, It's a difficult job task to do and many people will tell you this type of set up is one of the hardest to keep, Build up of leaves, waste, and such gets trapped in the rocks, this start to breakdown and can cause many unseen issues.
There are two types of organisms and tiny single-celled bacteria called aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. Aerobics are able to use oxygen, whereas anaerobic bacteria can sustain itself without the presence of oxygen. Aerobic bacteria can detoxify oxygen, whereas anaerobic bacteria cannot sufficiently break down food molecules as much as aerobic bacteria.
Aerobic bacteria gets energy from food when compared to anaerobic, that can survive in places where there is less oxygen, such as in Rocks or in areas of little or no water movement. Some anaerobic bacteria also causes diseases in those areas of the body where there is less oxygen supplied. Aerobic bacteria cannot grow without an ample supply of oxygen involved in a chemical reaction, whereas the anaerobic term does not imply this.
Here is my suggestions but please before doing any thing make sure you feel comfortable and are ready to take on each step as you feel best fit.
water changes- this will help reduce anything bad that test kits Can't read.
Add filtration, Your filter is the heart of the pond, just as we can't live a normal life without a heart, but can survive if there is ample blood flow and oxygen in our system and can live off of a life support system. A pond works in a similar manner. A pond can support life without filtration, But at some point with livestock and feeding there becomes a point that the pond can't handle the load any longer.
Remove the rocks on the bottom of the pond/If they are in there. net and remove as much build up on the bottom as possible.
Add plants, plants do many functions, but here are the ones that they do that would help you. One they provide shade, If the pond was covered with 50% -75% coverage from lilies and other plants the water would probably stay clear as they would use up the nutrients that the green water is now thriving on, the shade also reduces the amount of sunlight that reaches the pond discouraging algae growth and at the same time helping maintain more stable water temps. Plants also provide food for fish, help reduce waste, add area for bacteria to grow when the roots are exposed to the water column, ( Marginal's such as Taro, pickerel rush, Iris, cat tails, Papyrus, Thalia, etc can be grown directly in the rocks along the edge and do not need pots). Plants also provide protection for fry and provide protection for adults from predators.
 
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Larkin the argulus is the primary problem if that is what verygreen has especially if experiancing warm weather meaning optimum breading conditions for them other things beingreported are as a direct result of it.
It has to be treated quickly

rgrds

Dave
 

fishin4cars

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Dave 54 said:
Ah ha bingo cracked your ponds problem verygreen you have the parasite Argulus or as its more commonly known fish lice and a beautiful one at that , do I have your permission to copy this one off .
Its in actual fact a crustacaen.
They feed on your fishes blood when they attach themselves to a fish they bite into the fish and as they do they release a sort of toxin which in smaller fish can be fatal in larger ones its enough to give them a really hard time of things Do you know this is the first I've ever come across on a persons fish they are quit e rare nowadays due to extensive Quarentining this must have slipped through the net or was on the koi .
The fish thanx to these bites is then liable to a secondary infection.
The fish start swimming eratically and are irritated by the parastie this is why they are acting so strange , its in part due to the toxins released
They are nocturnal in their mating and the rggs are diposited in the walls of your pond this may be hundereds of eggs ( around 4-500 per female these eggs then take around about two weeks ro hatch into juviniles.
To treat them your going to have to get ahold of someone who knows aout anethatizing fish or try follow my thread each fish is going to have to be put under and checked for adults which you then have to take off by use of tweezers please make sure they have been sterilized first.
Use propolis spray on the bite mark sites to stop any secondary infections of your fish.
To get rid of the juviniles you have to get hold of an organophosphate based treatment see your dealer for this orfe are very sencitive have to ge remobed from the pond and mot returned for about at least four weeks whilst you dose the pond at 7 day intervals.
You'll have to treat three times to make sure you kill all the juviniles and just hope you got all the adult first time around if no more eggs are laid you'll have won and the egg laying cycle busted .
It's a nasty thing to get but you can win but you'll have to work hard for this victory .
Sorry that you have such a nasty parasite I really am .

rgrds

Dave

Thanks for the information and input Dave, Now I need to go and read your other thread on this topic. I've seen lice before, but never in a established pond. Only found them on fish that had been received from dealers many years ago. I just learned a good bit about them now from your post I wasn't aware of as well. I've have taken tweezers and removed the adults in the past, Similar to removing anchor worms. Does Salt have any effect on Lice? Just curious. Since they are so rare and rarely dealt with I simply don't have the experience in dealing with them and now I'm curious myself to learn more. Just in case! :highfive:
 
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Dave, sure, feel free to use the pictures as you see fit.
I already disconnected the parasite from the fish, there was no visible wound under it. Getting hold of the other fish is going to be quite a challenge, though. I'll look into propolis.
It seems the way to kill juveniles is with dimilin that prevents them from going through their cycle and seems to be non-poisonous to both fish and plants, unlike organophosphates. The trick is to find where to buy iy, it seems.

fishing4cars, there technically should not be any rocks at the bottom, just liner, though I am sure some gravel fell there (+ al the leaves and other stuff from last fall, of course). Need to figure out how to drain this pond now, hopefully a pond contractor will reply to my email and I can arrange the bottom cleanout. My wife is against having many plants because then the pond would not look "Japanese" ;)
As for the filter, the waterfalls works as sort of a trickle filter apparently, which explains why I don't have any significant increases in Ammonia.
I also added bacteria from a couple products like Microbe-lift PL (per their dosage instructions) and then some other product that was highly recommended by my local pond store, but it's otherwise almost unknown it seems. After latest addition the greenness was somewhat reduced (I'd say 4 days ago or so).

I just bought a 150 gallons mini inflatable pond that I plan to use as a mini quarantine tank (since my fish is not all that huge), will order some sort of a suitablefilter for it and once deivered (should not take long), I'll try to catch my fish one by one to inspect for Argulus, remove whatever I can find and probably keep them at leaast for some time in the QT tank.
I also ordered a microscope, so as to double check what else might be present on my fish.

Thanks for suggestions so far.
 
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dieselplower said:
What is the flow rate on the pump?
Due to the elevation, there are actually three pumps and the resulting flow is ok. Entire volume should be cycled in an hour or two (not that I ever measured it, of course, going off by words of contractor).
 
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Sometimes they can be wrong what filtration is on the pond itself ?
when we said to take these Argulus with tweezer I remembered I did a thread about first aid kits for koi and other fish ,
It would be fantastic if you put put your own together ready for any eventuality it safes alott of time hunting around for things needed to treat your fish
Here's the link to the makup of our on kit remembering its been put together over decades :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/10492-first-aid-kit-for-koi/

be careful with organo phosphates around gold fish if you choose to use super verm you will kill the goldfish , we use it only on koi.


rgrds

Dave
 
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I guess as an update, another small goldfish floated, seems to have been dead for some time - plenty of scales missing, tail not in the great form, belly is brownish.
I hope the bigger ones are fine, but have not seen any of them since morning (not unusual, really).
 
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Dave 54 said:
Sometimes they can be wrong what filtration is on the pond itself ?
In the pond there is a skimmer (far left on the picture, kind of not visible all that great) that houses the three pumps that pump water uphill. In the fountain box there are a couple of "filters" of unknown nature at the bottom that water filters through, I only know they are very heavy.
 
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Well if your going to treating for Argulus pehaps at the end we tske a look at all the pumps filters etc and perahps look into am good ,maintenance routine .
When gif you last replabce your U/V-C as we hav to get rid of your green water so that we can see proplerly into the pond and see whats going on, especially those heavy pumps as I've a feeling they are filters as well ?
I know all the problems seem to be building up Argulus, green water etc but theres nothing you cant turn around we just take the problims head on and fix them one at a time,
Your main concern is the Argulus , next the green water look at algae as one big filter only this wone after releasing oxygen in the water un the day produces Co2 at night m do you have an air pump if so a couple of large airstones in the pond should help at night.
Our own pond like your own is in direct sunlight for most of the day during the summer , the only algae we ever get is aaround the pond walls and bottom due to our U/V-C being man enough for its job so we know a U/V-C helps no end wjat wattage is yours , its recomended you chanhge your bulb once a year the experts say that after 6 months the bulbs life is nearing its end and after a year they are all but useless .
Clearing the twio heavy pumps is a must we use a product called Micrope lift PL filterpad innoculent gel its sarn good at what it does buy a large bottle and follow its instructions to the letter with a heavy dose for each filter which you keave i the air for 30 minutes then just stood i water for an hour prior to you switching on again (it gives it time to collenate your flter materia)l then you switch the filters back on and see what happens .

rgrds

Dave
 
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Another update for overnight situation.
Last night I took the two isolated goldfishes and gave them ~4.5ppm PPM bath for 30 minutes, they syrvived that, then I moved them into a clean aquarium that I got from walmart as now my tiny QT tank.

Overnight one died, another one seems to have another parasite coming out of it, that I need to do a bit of research on, see pictures. This surviving goldfish looks to be breathing somewhat heavily as in, does not open mouth as wide as before. I did not feed them for 2 days already and who knows what they ate while in a pond, and when.
Hopefully by the end of it all I won't have a comprehensive collection of different parasite pictures.
 

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