STILL Green :(

[sissy]

I knew she tried the quilt batting so figured it was not working ,sad to say as it does work for most .You just may have to wait it out .Or you can use some peroxide or get barley .Remember we are the ones who like clear water and the fish like the green water .You look at most traditional koi ponds and they are green .We want to see our fish .Over feeding and plant fertilizers can add to green water .I only feed my fish 2 or 3 times a week.True about well water I get mine tested by the county 3 times a year .Free so why not

 

[tbendl]

Don't pee in the pond, especially if you're wearing chest waders.

Wish I'd read this yesterday... LOL

 

[Paultergeist]

Interesting discussion.....common problem......a variety of under-lying causal factors....

I was wondering if there had been any new developments?

 

[Priscilla]

Interesting discussion.....common problem......a variety of under-lying causal factors....

I was wondering if there had been any new developments?

None. Pond is still green. Although MAYBE slightly improving after running the 'new UV light' for just over 2 weeks.

My replacement UV bulb arrives today or tomorrow, its a higher wattage and is rated for a pond my size, so I expect it to clear up fairly quickly. I will then test for nitrates and see what the true reading is.

I do plan to add a smaller pond and connect it with a stream just to add more water to the current fish situation.

 

[crsublette]

None. Pond is still green. Although MAYBE slightly improving after running the 'new UV light' for just over 2 weeks.

I think you just need to wait it out.

I don't think nutrients is the problem here. I have been working with fish pond gardening systems that have 20ppm Phosphates and 40ppm Nitrates, amongst many other nutrients, and they do not have constant "green water" algae.

I sent a PM to you in reply to your mail. Sounds like it might be getting better. Look forward to see how you're doing.

 

[sissy]

I actually have a uv now after reading that it not only kills algae but also can get rid of parasites .I have it on a small pump and the water goes straight back into the pond and not to any filter .It worked for me this past summer .I actually did not buy the uv's .Some people on bad advice from a so called pond builder landscaper here built a pond and there fish all got sick and I had tanks so took care of them until they rebuilt there pond correctly .The pond leaked every where it could .He sold them some kind of plastic type liner that leaked .It looked like 10 mil .They bought new uv's and told me to keep the other 2 for my help

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I think you just need to wait it out.

I don't think nutrients is the problem here. I have been working with fish pond gardening systems that have 20ppm Phosphates and 40ppm Nitrates, amongst many other nutrients, and they do not have constant "green water" algae.

What level of mechanical filtration do these systems have? Do they also have UV clarifiers?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I actually have a uv now after reading that it not only kills algae but also can get rid of parasites .I have it on a small pump and the water goes straight back into the pond and not to any filter .It worked for me this past summer .I actually did not buy the uv's .Some people on bad advice from a so called pond builder landscaper here built a pond and there fish all got sick and I had tanks so took care of them until they rebuilt there pond correctly .The pond leaked every where it could .He sold them some kind of plastic type liner that leaked .It looked like 10 mil .They bought new uv's and told me to keep the other 2 for my help

UVs do perform well in controlling planktonic algae. Keep in mind that UVs, in no way, lower the nutrient levels in the water that fuel algae outbreaks. As to parasite control, UVs may offer SOME level of protection from SOME parasitic organisms IF the UV units are properly used and water conditions are RIGHT. Water flow rate is the greatest controlling factor. Very low flow rate are required for a UV unit to afford any level of protection or sterilization. The lower the wattage of the UV unit the lower the required Maximum flow rate, i.e. an 18 Watt UV requires a maximum flow rate of about 35-40 gallons per hour. This low flow rate is necessary to allow ample exposure time of the target organism to the UV light. In a pond of just 200 gallons, at this low flow rate, a parasite has a greater chance of making contact with a fish than with the UV unit. Turbidity, water hardness, iron and manganese levels, and tannins in the water also greatly affect the effectiveness of a UV unit. Algae control....OK. Pathogen and parasite control....don't bet your fish on it unless you are willing to spend a sizeable amount of money on a large UV unit that will accommodate a high flow rate.

 

[sissy]

I have 1 - 18 watt and 2- 9 watt units that use a small 450 gph or it could be the 360 gph pump I am not sure which pump is down there right now and the hoses from each one goes right back into the pond .I was concerned with the water from the well and filtered that before it even went into the pond .It actually went through the whole house filter also .But with birds and stuff you never know what gets into the pond .I did not want to stress the fish out to much because of having to rebuild the pond in March

 

[crsublette]

What level of mechanical filtration do these systems have? Do they also have UV clarifiers?

Same mechanical filtration as any other pond (that adheres to standardized aquaculture husbandry) with one added device, that is an "integrated, offline" waste mineralization tank, which is essentially a liquid compost device for the fish waste that continually, at a slow rate, injects the now stabilized and reduced nutrient waste solution back into the system.

UV clarifiers are rarely used unless there is an occasional "green algae" bloom, except these blooms are rare eventhough the nutrients are always in surplus. I think this is due to microbiology diversity present in these systems. UV devices have a propensity to oxidize various nutrients, such as iron, and to more quickly degrade chelating agents. So, when UV devices are rarely used, then they are used sporadically unless the integrated aquaculture system is constructed in an integrated, dual loop aquaculture-horticulture design.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Same mechanical filtration as any other pond (that adheres to standardized aquaculture husbandry) with one added device, that is an "integrated, offline" waste mineralization tank, which is essentially a liquid compost device for the fish waste that continually, at a slow rate, injects the now stabilized and reduced nutrient waste solution back into the system.

UV clarifiers are rarely used unless there is an occasional "green algae" bloom, except these blooms are rare eventhough the nutrients are always in surplus. I think this is due to microbiology diversity present in these systems. UV devices have a propensity to oxidize various nutrients, such as iron, and to more quickly degrade chelating agents. So, when UV devices are rarely used, then they are used sporadically unless the integrated aquaculture system is constructed in an integrated, dual loop aquaculture-horticulture design.

I have been experiencing some difficulty integrating your most recent posts in this thread and the 'Drunk Fish' thread with my own knowledge base. This recent (quoted) post lit up the proverbial light bulb in explaining the conflict.
You have been regularly referring to 'aquaculture' when in actuality you have been referring to Aquaponics. Integrated off-line mineralization is an important component in a properly functioning Aquaponics system, but not in Aquaculture, open or RAS. Some experimenting has been done in Europe in recent years on integrating the two (2) distinct systems.
As you stated in an earlier comment, Phosphorus levels of 20 - 40 ppm is not uncommon...IN Aquaponics. High levels of Phosphorus (and Nitrate) are necessary in those systems where the production of flowers, seed or fruit is the goal. Often levels of over 40 ppm are striven for. Algae blooms are rarely a problem because in a properly designed Aquaponics system, adequate shade is provided for all but the Grow Bed(s).
In Aquaculture, however, especially RAS (which most closely resembles a pond in function) UV, foam fractionators, and ozone generators (or oxygen injectors) are used for the health and quality of the water, Algae blooms (green water) is a desired condition in fresh water Aquaculture.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Honestly testing is kinda crap.
The testing for nitrates and phoshates are. Organic and inorganic. You can test for them and have tons of algae and the levels will read low. If you have algae, you need to get rid of the organic matter.

Check your water with a tds ( total dissolved solids). Like it has been stated before, the well water can be as high as 1000 tds causing water changes to become adding more junk in your pond than there was before.
Silicates can cause algae outbreaks.

Check the manufacturer of your uv light. There should be a specified gph to run it at for parasite, bacteria, or algae. These lights are so underrated because folks think they can plug them in and be set. If it doesn't provide that info, I would not buy it.

 

[crsublette]

You have been regularly referring to 'aquaculture' when in actuality you have been referring to Aquaponics.

Correct.

Integrated off-line mineralization is an important component in a properly functioning Aquaponics system, but not in Aquaculture, open or RAS.

Correct.

Some experimenting has been done in Europe in recent years on integrating the two (2) distinct systems.

As far as I am aware, integrated agriculture categorized under the "aqua-ponic" industry label has only been around for about 9 or so years, which I believe started with Dr. McMurtry and then the UVI project by Dr. Rakocy and now Dr. Nick Savidov has been doing quite a bit in the academic arena. Dr. Lennard along with Dr. Rakocy has been quite involved as well in this arena and also have a website, The Aquaponics Doctors. I will need to do some searching in my very unorganized library to find more excellent reference hyperlinks. There have been some small major documents for the recreational arena, such as the FAO of the United Nations - Guide Book - Small-scale aquaponic food production (don't let the front picture fool you since significant mechanical and biological filtration is all talked about).

In the commercial arena of "aqua-ponics", there have been a few major commercial systems that integrate the two systems. However, this integration is mostly one way where very little, if any, of the horticulture system water returns to the aquaculture system. Many of these systems have been constructed and engineer aided with the help of Mr. Van der Werf. Since he has finally finished his huge UAE pilot project, he is gradually bringing back Earthan Group website back online. Blue Smart Farms is another facility where I am told Mr. Van der Werf had a hand in helping, to an extent I am not for sure of. Mr. Van der Werf is truly the major player when it comes to the commercial arena. From what I have come to understand, his systems utilizes a specialized, patented, organic certifiable, "integrated, offline" mineralization system to deal with the fish waste.

In the small business area of "aqua-ponics" catering more to the organic niche market, there have been only a handful of successful operations out there, that have survived for up to around 5 years, and many many more that have gone out of business. These systems utilize more of a system where much more of the water returns to the aquaculture system. Unfortunately, this context is what has defined most of the "aqua-ponics" hobby due to all of the "get rich quick training courses and home aquaponic kit sellers".

As you stated in an earlier comment, Phosphorus levels of 20 - 40 ppm is not uncommon...

Correct.

IN Aquaponics. High levels of Phosphorus (and Nitrate) are necessary in those systems where the production of flowers, seed or fruit is the goal. Often levels of over 40 ppm are striven for.

This has been debatable mostly dependent on crop and whom is managing the system. However, still, there does remain a surplus of nutrients to varying degrees.

Algae blooms are rarely a problem because in a properly designed Aquaponics system, adequate shade is provided for all but the Grow Bed(s).

Correct.

In my context, I am particularly talking about folk whom are using outdoor ponds to feed the horticulture subset rather than tanks that can easily have a lid or shade cloth placed over them. I do have to battle the occasional string algae outbreak, which I deal with an occasional spray down with a high water pressure sprayer and a low dose hydrogen peroxide (7% conc) schedule until it disappears. Once the string algae is gone, then I usually do not have to deal with it for a few weeks. I have not yet had a "green water" algae outbreak.

In Aquaculture, however, especially RAS (which most closely resembles a pond in function) UV, foam fractionators, and ozone generators (or oxygen injectors) are used for the health and quality of the water, Algae blooms (green water) is a desired condition in fresh water Aquaculture.

Correct.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

@Meyer Jordan,

I think he put you in place!
time to fire back. (Popcorn in hand)

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Correct.


Correct.


As far as I am aware, integrated agriculture categorized under the "aqua-ponic" industry label has only been around for about 9 or so years, which I believe started with Dr. McMurtry and then the UVI project by Dr. Rakocy and now Dr. Nick Savidov has been doing quite a bit in the academic arena. Dr. Lennard along with Dr. Rakocy has been quite involved as well in this arena and also have a website, The Aquaponics Doctors. I will need to do some searching in my very unorganized library to find more excellent reference hyperlinks. There have been some small major documents for the recreational arena, such as the FAO of the United Nations - Guide Book - Small-scale aquaponic food production (don't let the front picture fool you since significant mechanical and biological filtration is all talked about).

In the commercial arena of "aqua-ponics", there have been a few major commercial systems that integrate the two systems. However, this integration is mostly one way where very little, if any, of the horticulture system water returns to the aquaculture system. Many of these systems have been constructed and engineer aided with the help of Mr. Van der Werf. Since he has finally finished his huge UAE pilot project, he is gradually bringing back Earthan Group website back online. Blue Smart Farms is another facility where I am told Mr. Van der Werf had a hand in helping, to an extent I am not for sure of. Mr. Van der Werf is truly the major player when it comes to the commercial arena. From what I have come to understand, his systems utilizes a specialized, patented, organic certifiable, "integrated, offline" mineralization system to deal with the fish waste.

In the small business area of "aqua-ponics" catering more to the organic niche market, there have been only a handful of successful operations out there, that have survived for up to around 5 years, and many many more that have gone out of business. These systems utilize more of a system where much more of the water returns to the aquaculture system. Unfortunately, this context is what has defined most of the "aqua-ponics" hobby due to all of the "get rich quick training courses and home aquaponic kit sellers".


Correct.


This has been debatable mostly dependent on crop and whom is managing the system. However, still, there does remain a surplus of nutrients to varying degrees.


Correct.

In my context, I am particularly talking about folk whom are using outdoor ponds to feed the horticulture subset rather than tanks that can easily have a lid or shade cloth placed over them. I do have to battle the occasional string algae outbreak, which I deal with an occasional spray down with a high water pressure sprayer and a low dose hydrogen peroxide (7% conc) schedule until it disappears. Once the string algae is gone, then I usually do not have to deal with it for a few weeks. I have not yet had a "green water" algae outbreak.


Correct.

I enjoy the essay, I don't understand, but aye.